to think that some people get a real kick out of excluding others?

[NameChangerOrdinaire]

Just that really.

Just been told by my parents not to expect to go and see sister's new baby, "they will tell you when they're ready". (Baby is not born yet, but is due any week now.)

I realise, naturally, that it is up to the new parents, not up to me (I do have two children of my own, after all!) So please don't tell me IABU for trying to make this about me. I know it's not about me.

I would never want to intrude.

I am just a bit that this has come up at the last moment (in my culture it is very normal for close family to go and see the new baby as soon as it's born) and the attitude is also pretty disrespectful towards me and my family. It's a 6-hour round trip and we have two toddlers, so it's not that convenient for us to arrive "on command" IYSWIM, it would be nicer to sort out a mutually convenient time.

Baby has no other aunts and only 1 other uncle apart from DH so it's not like they are going to be swamped with visitors.

I didn't say anything but I really resented the lecture on how birth is unpredictable and you don't know how you're going to feel afterwards etc etc. Funnily enough I have done it not that long ago so I do remember! I really think my parents were getting a kick out of telling me that I had to wait to be summoned. Especially since it came as second-hand message from them and not directly from the parents-to-be. I've very surprised as they don't have form for this sort of thing.

I can't help thinking of other times in my life when "friends" have pointedly asked me to not to come to parties etc. Does this happen to everyone? Or am I really such an awful person? Or is it just a bit of bad luck? Or how on earth should I take this?

Sorry I don't see the issue. When friends family have a baby I always say I'll come and see you when you feel ready?

Why is it excluding you?

Ummm I think it's a perfectly normal thing to say? Your SIL can't possibly say now when it would be good to visit, surely? Baby could arrive tomorrow, or in 3 weeks time! Maybe your sister is feeling more trepidatious about the whole thing than you think.

Unless you have a historically fractious relationship with your parents, I wouldn't give it a second thought.

So-called friends asking you not to come to parties is a whole different issue, unless you have form for misbehaving terribly!

What's it got to do with your parents? I'd just speak to your sister now, before baby arrives and say you'd like to arrange a time to come once the baby arrives and arrange it between yourselves

Anyone who tells you not to go to a party is not a 'friend' at all, sorry that's happened to you, thats cruel :(

Fgs you need to stop the drama. It really isn't about you. If you do go over presumably your toddlers will come along? Maybe your dsis just wants to recover in peace for a bit before seeing any visitors.

Don't you communicate direct with your dsis? Why are your parents involved in her relationship with her? Bit odd for grown ups!

However no it's always up the new parents but with 2 toddlers and a 6 hour round trip I wouldn't be rushing to visit anyway. New babies are all alike and fairly boring really and parents are tired and don't need The hassle.

Why would you?

Just call to congratulate after the birth and let them invite you when they are ready. No big deal

In our culture it is really normal for close family to drop everything and see the baby right away (happened with both of mine). I know it's very different in British culture so try to imagine something a bit different

It would also be perfectly acceptable for someone to say "It's great that you're prepared to drop everything, but we're feeling a bit nervous about this, why don't we wait and see how it goes." This happened with my SIL. No drama. I never thought twice about it.

It is just the "don't you understand how stressful it can be to have a baby? You will need to wait and then they will tell you a convenient day/time, only the grandparents [smug look] will see the baby" that got my back up. Not so much the perceived 'rejection' (I don't see it like that) but the smugness and lecturing.

Sorry this is maybe a drip feed, but was in response to my saying that we would have to see what time/day the baby was born in order to see when we could get over there (jobs & children's schedules), and I was knocked down with a lecture about how we weren't welcome there anyway and they would tell us when to come. I guess my upset is mainly cultural.

One minute we were all talking excitedly about when the new baby might be born and the next I was basically being told that I wasn't welcome to visit so stop going on about it!

ladyluck you sound charming ... not.

by "when i am ready" it is a start line, not a command to come today NOW, so sometime after now is what she means.
but someone we know said this she was actually very upset by the lack of visitors she got.

I realise, naturally, that it is up to the new parents, not up to me

the attitude is also pretty disrespectful towards me and my family.

If you understand, and agree, then why is it a problem and why do you feel it is disrespectful?

I can't help thinking of other times in my life when "friends" have pointedly asked me to not to come to parties etc. Does this happen to everyone?

Honestly no - if people haven't wanted me at a party, then they may not have invited me, but nobody has ever asked me specifically not to come to a party. I can't even imagine the circumstances under which this would occur - surely most people would just not invite you to a party wouldn't they? Do you have form for turning up to things that you have not been invited to? I think a bit of context for these other times might be pertinent.

sooperdooper Anyone who tells you not to go to a party is not a 'friend' at all, sorry that's happened to you, thats cruel

It has happened twice. Both many, many years ago (like more than 15), but I think this has really triggered those feelings of rejection as I have been crying over this! I just feel terrible.

Anyway my IABU was asking if you think some people just get a kick out of excluding others. I reckon they do, I guess.

Is this about your upset at your parents getting in between you and your sister?

And/ or about the way they spoke to you about it, as if to rub in that you aren't to think you have any special privilege, whereas they do?

I may have got the wrong end of the stick, but have you had these sorts of feeling about other things relating to your parents and sister?

Sorry for being all over the thread.

DoJo once a boyfriend asked me not to come to his party. It turned out he was cheating on me with his ex (I was the other woman, but didn't know it!) and she was invited to the party.

Another time, a friend asked me to come over to celebrate her birthday. A little while later, I mentioned to her housemate - another friend - that "I'll see you at X's birthday on Saturday. What time shall I come over?"

"Oh, I think it will be just the family", she said. 'Family' meaning the housemates I guess.

I'd more or less forgotten about these but not got over them apparently!

Will stop commenting now

Yarp Yes that's it exactly.

I have never had these sorts of feelings about them before, though.

"Another time, a friend asked me to come over to celebrate her birthday. A little while later, I mentioned to her housemate - another friend - that "I'll see you at X's birthday on Saturday. What time shall I come over?"

"Oh, I think it will be just the family", she said. 'Family' meaning the housemates I guess."

But that wasn't your friend telling you not to come? Could just have been the housemate getting it wrong, or stirring? Did you not check with your friend?

I think you clearly have a sensitive spot about invitations, and it seems you are winding this all up to be something it isn't, really.

What? Those two party things were unpleasant but apparently years ago and you're still stewing over them? Plus although you're making all the right noises about understanding people want a bit of space after they've just had a baby that's just lip service and actually you want to go over there straight after the baby is born without waiting for an invitation or confirmation that they're ready.

Sorry, just relax a little bit. You seem to be quite intense and sensitive and possibly with a tendency to get overwrought about things. I think sometimes that can make people a bit hard to be around and possibly if you just relaxed a bit you might find people were much more willing to come to you and spend time with you. Sorry, I don't mean to sound nasty but it's a mistake I've made myself in the past and I know people used to back off because it's hard being around someone who is constantly over analysing everything to find something to cause offence at. And I wish someone had told me that much earlier.

I think you have to separate the two in your mind - the incidents you describe are people being afraid of getting caught out (the boyfriend) and kind of bitchy (the 'friend'), but people usually grow up in 15 years, so it's not unreasonable to expect that people will be a bit more mature about their interactions as you reach adulthood.

It sounds as though your parents are over reacting to the suggestion that you will want to visit your sister - do you think you suspect them of being closer to or more protective than her? Did you feel as though they intruded when your children were born? I don't doubt that some people enjoy being mean to others, but you know your parents - do you think they enjoyed trying to exclude you with these comments?

In our culture it is really normal for close family to drop everything and see the baby right away

Well done to the parents who state firmly, and in advance, that this will not be happening.

The incidents from 15 years ago (really) are ridiculous. A cheating ex being a twat, and the other? A friend getting her wires crossed? A mutual pal shit-stirring? Anyway, the fact that you're still dwelling, and have taken the baby visiting thing so personally, makes you sound like a drama queen.

I do get exactly what you mean OP. I have a (usually) perfectly sane friend who sort of morphs into the Queen every time she drops a sprog and actually texts out appointments for when she would like us to come round.

Ain't nobody got time for that shit.

It's not a competition, OP! Even if your folks treat it like it's one (annoyingly). I suspect you are getting a 'lecture' because this IS unusual in your culture and some effort has gone into explaining to them why they are doing it in this way! However, culture or not, it really is the choice of the parents. I am sure it's not intended to be personal - it may simply be that your sister doubts her ability to deal with guests and to handle it as well as you clearly did!

As for the visit not being at a convenient time for you - the great thing about this situation is that you don't have to go 'on command'. If it's not a good time, you can say that and rearrange! ('I can't wait to see him/her, but this weekend is impossible because DD is ill. How about next?'). NB Only do this for real- don't mess them around for the sake of it, it's childish.

I think the real issue here is the way that your parents have presented this, and their gloating attitude, which frankly I don't understand at all.

Friends of ours very were Gina-Ford-routiney from day one of their firstborn arriving, so we were summoned on specific dates at set times for set periods of time. It's not how we did it; our friends and family just rocked up whenever the hell they liked (one friend lied and said she was my sister to get through hospital security to visit when ES was born, I was too tired to care) but I think as new parents you have the right to be as routined or as laid-back as you like.

Don't let other people's choices make you feel rejected. Just accept that they're going to parent differently, and keep on making choices that work for you.

well, if your parents are the same culture as you, and they have taken on board that, for whatever reason, your DSis and BiL don't want visitors just like that, then surely you can too. I always find the 'it's usual in my culture' an odd thing to say or think - not everyone in any single culture is the same!

There are 2 things that occur to me - 1, that for some reason your DSis is anxious about the upcoming birth, maybe complications that you are unaware of, and 2, that perhaps you might be a bit 'know-it-all' about pregnancy, childbirth and parenting? It's a total guess - looking at yourself honestly, have you been telling your DSis how everything is going to be - because you've been there and done that?

My final thought is, is your BIL part of the same culture? Maybe he finds the idea of the entire family descending on them straight after the birth a bit much?

I think the OP is questioning, has this decision come from the parents or have the grandparents decided this for them.

If her Dsis had said it herself, then I doubt the OP would mind that.

I also come from a culture where it is normal to visit soon after the birth, and people don't wait for an invite. I think it is difficult for people to always appreciate how it feels when it is not their culture. However, that wasn't your question and yes I agree with you some people like excluding others and it gives them a kick.

Unless your sister has form for this then I expect that parents have been given this lecture and rather then seeing it as being more pointedly about them, they've decided to pass it on.

Yes some people like excluding others, the examples above - ex and not-friend - obviously did it though that's because it was for their own benefit. You know your Dsis OP, do you honestly think she'd purposefully want to hurt you? Or has she maybe told your mum and dad to wait to be called because they want to bombard before she's even had time to pass the afterbirth?

Thanks for some very insightful comments above.

laughing, I don't think for a moment that DSis and BIL would deliberately want to hurt me. In fact I think their main concern right now is for themselves and their baby, which is as it should be . It was my parents and the way they said it that really shocked me.

RiverTam, I can honestly, hand on heart say that I've never been a know-it-all about anything to do with childbirth or parenting (except for my own experiences; hell, I know what my own birth experiences were like! And I haven't mentioned those in detail to DSis because one of them was really awful). If anything DSis has been more of a know-it-all about my kids. She works in child care and has sniffed at most of my name choices, choice to use cloth nappies, refusal to take newborn in the car on my lap etc etc.

Mentioning the culture bit was not done to suggest that anyone in the family should have to do the same thing, only to explain why I was working on that assumption. In general UK culture it would seem a bit weird to assume you would see the new baby within a few hours, so I wanted to explain where I was coming from.

I guess I'm over the shock now. It was just very upsetting to be hit by such an unexpected condescending attitude from my parents, I was really very surprised by it. C'est la vie.

"I'm very surprised as they don't have form for this sort of thing."
That is odd, isn't it? To come from nowhere. And then to come out with "don't you understand how stressful it can be to have a baby?" when you have recently had one yourself? Not to be alarmist, but might it be worth keeping an eye on your mum's behaviour and memory for a bit?

Phone your sister, ask her how she's doing. As part of the conversation I would lightheartedly raise your mother's behaviour to her. By which I mean something along the lines of 'you know you have really made mum's day, her year!, by saying 'only the grandparents will see the baby'. She sat there looking like the cat who got the cream, positively purring when she told me that!' And then change the subject to something else entirely.

Give your sister a chance to communicate her own wishes directly to you.