Nine-year-old making her own lunch

[MamaLazarou]

My nine-year-old niece told me that every morning she makes her own - and her 15-yr-old sister's packed lunches every morning before school.

She also regularly turns up for sleepovers (at ours and her father's house) without a hairbrush, warm jumper or enough clean clothes because she packs her own overnight bag.

On one occasion on a weekend away, the 9-yr-old slept in her clothes and hardly washed - her mother either didn't notice or didn't care.

When asked about this, their mother says that they are encouraged to be independent and do things for themselves.
She thinks IABU to think the nine-year-old has too much responsibility for her age.

Go on, Mumsnet - give it to me straight!

If you will excuse the drip feeding, I asked her why she made her sister's lunch and she said that if she didn't, the sister just wouldn't bother with lunch. Older sister is very slim, introverted high-achiever, so this worries me as I think she is ripe for an eating disorder.

I don't think their mother is a bad parent, I just think she is a bit lazy and relies on them too much to look After themselves.

She has to make their lunch every day.
She is not sent for stays away from home with the minimum required.
She has permanent personal hygiene issues.

I don't think you are being OTT about this, or letting your own experiences cloud your view beyond the fact that you recognise neglect.

If she smells, then I agree with a PP that her clothes probably aren't getting washed. A child who is diligent enough to make her sister lunch, just because she's worried that she won't eat otherwise, would probably have some concept of the need to keep herself clean, so if she had clean clothes then she would probably smell fine. (That could also explain lack of appropriate clothes for a sleepover.)

It does sounds as though 'encouraging independence' is a euphemism for 'parent not having to get off their arse'. I have a two year old, and much as I long for the day he will finally admit that he probably could dry his own blooming hands without my supervision, I can't imagine not bothering to wash his clothes or check that he had everything he needed if he was going to be away for a night.

It does sound a bit worrying - have you got any ideas on how to improve the situation? I assume the mother is a single parent seeing as you haven't mentioned a parent, but would you feel comfortable bringing it up? Or could you maybe encourage her to have a nice bubble bath when she's at yours and talk about how nice it is to be all clean etc so that she can either tell you if there is a reason she doesn't wash more, or open up a discussion about how often she should be bathing/showering. Maybe you could write her a list of things to bring next time she comes which she can refer to if she goes anywhere else too. I know it's not ideal to give her more responsibilities, but at least arming her with some knowledge will help her to look after herself if she needs to.

yabu

ripe for an eating disorder

apart from the clean clothes bit my dd is like this, although 11 now she has been gaining more and more independance beyond her years since about 4.

The child will see what is going on and maybe learned how to make a packed lunch, it's hardly difficult.

My dc have been putting a load of washing on since about 8 and were ironing own schol uniform at start of secondary. I show them during school hols.

The result is they know how to look after themselves, are independent and in the case of lads, don't grow up expecting their oh to do domestic chores.

If there are older children in the family this can also encourage younger ones to be independent like their older siblings.

Sorry OP, I missed a couple of your posts, not sure how.

Independance is good, honking isn't.
I agree with others that if you aren't going to get through to her mum can you help her yourself.
As other poster suggested a list of what she needs on any sleepover. You could get her to do a poster, all colourful to put on her wall at home.
You could include a personal hygiene bit as well, about how often to wash, clean teeth, shower etc.
What is her hair like, this is usually a tell tale sign.

Sorry you have been through similar and after reading all your posts YANBU.

She also regularly turns up for sleepovers (at ours and her father's house) without a hairbrush, warm jumper or enough clean clothes because she packs her own overnight bag

So why isn't her father making sure she has clean clothes and a hair brush at his house ? Surely if its a regular occurrence her then any decent parent would make sure they provided the above .

When My DS has his DD she turns up in the clothes on her back (often school uniform if he's collected her) yet he see's it as his duty to have hair brush ,tooth brush and clean clothes ready for when she stays at his.

My dd's 11,9 and 7 make their own packed lunches every evening when I'm tidying the kitchen after dinner

My 9 year old is quite capable of making a packed lunch. Doesn't see the point in brushing her hair yet. I generally do it.

If I asked her to pack a bag for a weekend away it would be full of things she didn't really need and would lack what she did need.

She'd be quite happy wearing the same clothes and not washing all weekend if I allowed it. Obviously I don't.

It's a bit of a turning point I'm finding. Mine will have me getting this, that and the other when she can quite easily do it herself. For example a drink of water or a tissue. I'm finding myself saying a lot, well you could get that yourself couldn't you.

I'm not sure from what you're saying. I'm quite sure if mine went away with the school for a week now she'd probably not have a shower in a week and would try and wear the clothes she liked best whether they were dirty or not.

I'm desperate for her to do more for herself really. But it's a gradual process. She'll get herself dressed, but she won't for example think to brush her teeth - has to be told. Won't think to brush her hair. Doesn't pack her own school bag or fill her water bottle. But would pack her lunch. Would never think to carry a tissue even if she had a stinking cold. Sort of inbetween land for me.

My DD tries to make her own packed lunch sometimes, or puts a few bits together for a long car journey. Last summer she made herself and DS peanut butter sandwiches and I got horseradish sandwiches, yum

Forgot to say DD is 7

I am so pro-independent children that I have had SS called on me by (I think) a concerned neighbour. But this isn't independence, and in your heart you know it OP.

Is it possible to speak to her mum in a gentle way? Or have a no-names conversation about "a child" with SS or a teacher, to get some advice on the best way to handle things? Unfortunately, it really down to you to follow this through. Good luck, truly

PS: I felt quite glad that someone was keeping an eye out for my little one. The people who followd up were lovely and it's nice to know support was available if I ever needed it. They don't always swoop in and snatch the kiddies.

If we are going away overnight I ask my 8yr dd to leave what clothes she would like to take on her bed. I then check she has everything needed and add the things she forgets. Like pyjamas :) a good way to give her independence and practice what needs to be packed.

I do the packed lunches in our house , but I certainly wouldn't expect to be responsible for packing my 9 yos PE kit or overnight bag.
she is 9 not 3!!!

my little girl is eight she doesn't make her own lunches but she does pack her own bag for sleepovers I can't remember the last time I checked what she had packed

I think everything a 9yo says should be taken with a pinch of salt.

My Dc's pack their own bags. When it matters, like say for Cub Camp and they'll be cold and wet if they don't have everything they need, I check. If they were going for one night to stay with my sister, I'd think really what's the worst that can happen? If they were going to be with their father, I'd think he was just as capable of providing a hairbrush as I am.

We're encouraging independence with our 9 year old, but she still needs some adult supervision.

She makes her lunch, but with my help.

She packs her bag for sleepovers, but I check it with her or she'd pack 19 teddy bears and a party frock and not worry about clean knickers and her toothbrush

She's 9, and just finds it quite annoying that I make her eat veg, bathe regularly, brush her hair and clean her teeth. If I she didn't have some support she'd have chocolate spread sandwiches every day and wear the same dirty top to school all week. It just doesn't register on her radar yet

My eldest is 13, she is now perfectly capable of doing all the above, and more, but she's needed support to get there. 9 is still quite young, and you can't just expect them to get this stuff right without support to begin with

Whoever said that children don't swear or smell should meet my DS. He charges around the garden, tears around the playground, and after gym at school is more than a little damp. He most definitely hums.
Add in a few hormones, as at nine it'll be all be kicking in, and if she's skipping a bath she'll smell.
As to the pack lunch and overnight back, yes, she should be doing her own at that age but someone should be checking it.

Bloody autocorrect.
DS sweats. He doesn't swear.
And it's a packed lunch, and an overnight bag.

It depends how close they are to puberty.My youngest is 9, nearly 10, and hasn't got to 'the age of sweat' yet.

The only issue here is if she is smelly from regularly going over a week without washing. Is this the case? If so then there is possible neglect.

The other 'issues' are non issues and you should butt out.

My 8 year old dd packs her own overnight bag for sleepovers and weekends away. I don't even check it any more as she never forgets anything. And if she did she would survive. She also makes things for herself and others, including fried eggs, pasta and pesto, bacon sandwiches etc. she is perfectly sensible. She doesn't have packed lunches but if she did she would and could make those too. It isn't rocket science, it is bread and ham.
Why on earth should anyone make a sandwich for a kid over the age of about 6 if that kid can reach the bread and butter itself?

I haven't made her breakfast for at least 5 years either. Strangely she is also capable of pouring milk...!

that seems ok to me - you should see the state my 10y old comes back from sleepovers in - despite me packing his washbag and bag with everything a boy could possibly need. I've pretty much given up now as that washbag and toothbrush are rarely troubled.

YABU.
I think kids aren't made to do enough these days and as a result we have a nation teenagers and young adults who can't look after themselves, are spoilt and expect everything to be handed to them on a plate.

At the age of 9 I used to pack my own bag for my dad's, I'm constantly moaning that my 9 yo DSD should be doing the same, she rarely packs anything to bring to our house. I think at 9 they are more than capable of packing a few clothes etc. how are they ever going to learn unless they do it? And if she's cold because she forgot to put a jumper in her bag then she'll remember the next time.

Again I think at 9 she should be more than capable of making a sandwich etc for a packed lunch.

At 9 I used to come home from school on my own and make tea ready for when my mum got home.
I wasn't made to do that, I wanted to and I truly believe I've turned out a better adult for it.

It would raise alarm bells with me too, I was also neglected as a child and now I am painfully aware that as a child I smelt too. I would hate that for my DC.

If I had a nice Aunt raise this with me I would be now grateful although maybe at the time not so. Be that Aunt? buy her some lovely products?

When they visit can you do a quick checklist about what they have brought along? Make it fun?