To think of asking a solicitor to write to DS & DH on my behalf?

[Morven11]

DC, 19, A levels - won't get a job - has never thought he could/should combine study and work, even a few hours a week.

And a few hours a week even would make such a difference. We pay a gym sub (that has to stop); protein powders; extra food as he won't often eat what's in the kitchen (which, btw, is wholesome and varied - not many would complain). Tutors twice a week as he fell behind in his studies. He's doing OK - easily, easily time to work a few hours a week and make a reasonable contribution to his particular costs.

DH's job insecure. I work full time and, to make ends meet, have a couple of part time jobs. I'm exhausted. I've talked to DS - many times - and got no-where.

Something has crossed my mind - as DS won't listen - and DH is reluctant to insist that DS at least looks for work (and of course we'd help with that - in fact have done but he's not taken the next steps) and, in the meantime, to cut back on his gym etc. And that's go get someone to write to DS and maybe DH, too - in my most tired moments, and when I'm worried sick (which is quite often) about finances (they are severely stretched and incomes are modest) - I think that paying some solicitor or similar to spell it out. That his mum/DH's wife can't go on like this. Drastic, probably a daft idea, but might serve its purpose? I have no close family who could intervene.

Perhaps should add so that I don't sound completely callous I have still treated them, and still do, to things that they might like or enjoy. But I do this because I want to not because they need or expect me to.

I agree with pagwatch about showing him your finances, I think that buys into the idea that you have an obligation to buy him these things and have to justify why your can't. He doesn't have a claim over the money you earn now should he have any say as to how you spend it, it's yours. You are giving him a roof over his head, food and utilities for free, that's plenty.

But this isn't about the OP's son being a mooch, it's about the OP encouraging and then tolerating this behaviour.

The OP has blamed tiredness, her DH for not being tough enough and her son for not volunteering to pay his own way but hasn't attempted to address why she encourages and tolerates this behaviour.

There is a payoff for the OP's parenting decisions and untill she works out what it is and addresses it, it makes her susceptible to repeating the same mistakes.

Sounds like he's not cut out for University. Why don't you talk to him about training to be a gym instructor/personal trainer?

I think that's a bit harsh on the OP Isetan I do agree that the only part of this problematic situation she has control over is her own behaviour and that she needs to set some boundaries on what she is bankrolling. However her son is 19, not 5, he should take responsibility for his own behaviour and treat his mum with a bit more decency and compassion.

Agree with all said so far but I would add please don't suggest he wastes his GP's time with a desire to be a bit more muscular. We have ill people to deal with. Fine if you think he is depressed or has an eating disorder but otherwise this isn't what the NHS is for.

He isn't cut out for academic study by the sound of it. Has he looked at apprenticeships?

What greenfizzywater said x2

ILovePud, I didn't mean to be harsh but It sounds like the OP expected her son to magically defy his parenting and go against his indulged upbringing.

The OP can turn this around but I think her parenting style is probably so ingrained, that she doesn't fully appreciate or acknowledge her contribution. If the OP interprets indulgence as love, then the likelihood of her caving are really high, especially when she's on thereceiving end of the inevitable tantrums that comes with dispensing tough love.

Good luck OP

Op are you scared of your son? Or scared that he won't like you?

Have you ever said no to him? It sounds like he knows if he badgers you enough you will back down.

I'm sorry that so many posters (me included) seem to be coming down so hard on you but you are part of the problem. You cannot outscource the hard parts of parenting to a solicitor.
Make a stand on one thing (maybe the protein shakes) and once he knows you're no longer a pushover you'll find it easier to say no next time. He will thank you in the end.

OP, you cannot write his essays for him. Teachers are not stupid. They will see the difference in styles between what he writes at home and in class. His references will be written accordingly - quite apart from the fact his actual grades won't be anywhere near his predicted ones.

Your DS honestly does not sound anywhere near ready for university. When someone goes away to study, they need to be miles beyond the point that "of course" mummy and daddy would help them with their job applications and schoolwork.

My DS is 15 and I would say relatively immature for his age. He still wouldn't expect me to sit down with him to write an essay, or to help him apply for his work experience.

I have three sons and I know how it feels when they wear you down when your tired. I work a long week as a teacher and am a single parent. Please though light the fire in your belly and get cross. Don't justify it just say 'no'. Let him sulk. Please cancel the bloody tutors or he will fail his first year at uni and be massively in debt.
You can make a difference.

I worked 30+ hours a week from age 15 and still sat 12 GCSEs. I moved out at 17 and worked even more hours to pay my way and still managed to get 4 A levels at 18.

The problems OP lie mainly with your husband. He needs a kick up the arse (and possibly a short sharp shock too).

OP there's some pretty constructive advice on here, especially how to speak more assertively. I recall when DD was tiny and not sleeping, I read in a book that when you're exhausted it's really difficult to make a change, simply because it requires more energy, even if you know that the current situation isn't working and the change might help! It sounds like you're in this position. I don't think talking to your son needs to be a show down but I agree - you need to state clearly that you can longer afford to subsidise his extras and it is his choice whether he goes without or finds the means to finance it.

Couple of thoughts,

1. just repost any time. There's always someone around here so always fresh ideas
2. print out a budget sheet. Household incoming (rough no need for him to know exact detail) and outgoings. Group into his, yours dh, etc. he's not seeing a big picture. He's seeing lots of little ones. So £30 doesn't sound like much. If he knew it was as you describe it might be different.

Worth a shot maybe ?

I agree with other other posters you need to stop subsidising him. You say you have discussed things with him - but have you shown him the household budget in black and white? Show him the incomings/ outgoings and let him suggest ways of reducing it? He may agree if he is helped to own the decision and not be something forced upon him?

Also at that age if I hadn't got a part time job I was expected to help around the house - cooking, cleaning etc. If he is going onto full time study he needs to be able to look after himself - put a wash on etc so get him started to all that now! Yes hes got exams but will have to do all these things with further study too.

He will still love you you know, if you start to get tough. Ok he might get angry for a bit, he might even withdraw affection for a bit, if he knows that would make you feel bad and back down, but at the end of the day you are his mum and he will love you regardless. The added bonus is that he will respect you too.

You can't buy his love. And you don't need to.

Thank you, all.

I've just read all the posts, twice - lingering over quite a number of them because I can truly see myself and the family dynamics in them. I do think that I've made a rod for my own back. And that rod is now heavy and wearing me down. I haven't been a push-over and I haven't been soft throughout DS' life but I do see that now, when it's fair to say that he's a young adult as well as still (obviously) my child, things must change pronto.

Other DCs left home - sadly, both were hopeless about taking responsibility and I suppose a culture of forking out developed. One of the other DCs is in his postgrad year and has only recently started to work part time - apart from the occasional holiday job. Not good but better late than never. As he has now has no loan, we have to chip in to help him but I'm actually less upset about that than I am about the DS who is still at home because he's living here, free, comfortable, well fed. His almost constant gripes about food (a 'fussy palette' as one of you so aptly put it) and his weight (Greenfizzywater - I suggested he saw the GP about his anxieties about his weight - I think he's over anxious about that) are very tiring.

This afternoon, he asked me about the protein powder again - in a moment of weakness and stupidity a few days ago, I told him I'd order it for him online. Well today I had to say that this hadn't happened because we're limping towards the end of the month - and come the beginning of the next month, the budgeting will start again. I thought of what's been posted here and told him that these things were extras - nice for him - but to be paid for and that even a few hours of work a week would go a long way. He became angry - lots of F words - and said that now wasn't the time to get a job (though he acknowledges that he had promised to do so when the whole issue of gym and powder and lots of extra came up). Alright I said, but he could find chunks of work in the holiday - he grudgingly agreed that he could but I got the impression that he wasn't going to do anything about it.

He said that the gym was essential - how else was he going to tone after consuming the number of calories that he needs - and that the powder wasn't but it was equivalent to a 600 calorie meal which, if he didn't have the powder, he'd have to make. (BTW, I do worry about the number of calories that he thinks he needs, and the amount of protein, too. Again, I wish he'd take professional guidance.) I stuck to my guns and said that as he wasn't able to contribute, the powder was out of the question and the gym was something that he should be paying for via work - even if was the chunks in the holidays (there's somewhere near here where he could work for the odd long weekend, for instance) or, at the very, very least, finding a cheaper alternative. The local college gym, he says, isn't suitable for him - but he's never visited it.

Things calmed eventually - I really tried to remain calm.

So, I've made a start. I really agree that no must mean no. And I like this from carabos (thanks, carabos):

"IME there comes a moment with teens when you just know they're trying it on. When you open your eyes to that and take back control, they tend to go "ok, fair cop, you got me" and either chip in or move out. Just in case you were wondering, that moment is now."

DS is, I think, going to be OK at uni. He had an awful first A level year and has picked up quite a bit. He has high predicted grades and just needs to get down to the work. The tutors are for the subjects he had difficulties with - and one he still does - it seems to be making a difference, though. I can just about cope with that - I've put their cost into my 6 month budget - but not the other stuff. He doesn't really go out (except to the gym) and I wish he did. But sadly he doesn't - he's found it hard to make friends in his new sixth form where everyone pretty much knew everyone else from secondary. He spends a lot of time on the computer (and, yes, like idiots, we fund some gaming sub - but that's not nearly as much as the shakes and extra food).

Strategy is going to include: computer curfews; reasonable household chores; no shakes (surely unnecessary anyway) and a cheaper gym sub if he pays for it/contributes through work that he could quite easily pick up for the odd weekend in the holidays. He has the time - witness how much time he spends recreationally on the computer.

Sorry, this is very long - but there were a no of questions and I wanted to answer them all! THANKS all - you have given me strength and hope.

I dont think he should be "contributing" to the gym.
He's 19, FFS woman! You are working multiple jobs to keep your family afloat. If running on the street for free isn't enough for him, he needs to be paying for gym membership himself. Cancel the membership now and teach your child some life lessons.

I may be going off on a tangent and this may be wrong but are you aware that you paint quite a worrying picture of your son.
The obsession with calorie intake and working out is not great but if it were combined with a busy social life it would be less so.
Is he really solitary and obsessive atm or have I got completely the wrong end of the stick.

I think your DS has swallowed the marketing spiel of an expensive gym hook line and sinker - he's not considering other options for keeping his body in shape, of which there are plenty, because they have brainwashed him to believe that anything else is inferior. He can do a perfectly effective workout without any specialist equipment, using park benches, fences etc. There are an awful lot of people who can't afford gym membership and don't have a mum they can swear at till she coughs up, and they make do.

He'll be a lot better off in the long run if you cut off his membership asap and force him to find an alternative, rather than letting him stay hooked and spending whatever meagre wages he can earn on something so unnecessary.

I've been following this with interest as I too have a son at home, but he is 23. He also made a mess of one year at 6th form had had to repeat it.

He got into a good uni, and managed to get through the 1st year with, we thought, not too much trouble. The 2nd year however was a disaster and he was so far behind by Xmas that he had no hope of catching up. He started the 2nd year again and again was out of his depth by Xmas. He was holed up in his digs, not answering the phone or responding to his housemates banging on the door. Apparently he did not eat or leave the room. We had to go 'rescue' him and bring him home. He was so depressed he was mute and in a stupor almost - we half carried him out of that uni.

Anyway... this has led to him being at home still as we were not prepared to sub him to re-try his 2nd year yet again, although this shocked him when we said no.

However, differing from your son OP, he at least does loads of housework, pretty much all the gardening and prepares most of the evening meals. For exercise he runs and does karate. The karate is paid for by him teaching the kiddies for two sessions a week.

He does get occasional work on the hospital bank staff, archiving medical records and sorting out paperwork. Perhaps your son could sign up for bank work?

anyway.... not sure what the point of this post was really except to say I feel for you OP and to let you know that I understand how torn you must feel between being soft and hard.

Oh dear.
Nothing really achieved there, OP. You are still pandering to this adult male.

there is no reason he cannot get a job RIGHT NOW and start paying for his own gym membership and his computer gaming and probably his phone and his travel to and from the gym and his fussy eating...

Doing A levels is not a reason not to get a job. They are not as demanding as a university course and it is the norm for students to work. Plus your DS is a year older than most pupils doing their school exams, so even more reason for him to get out there and start earning his keep rather than sitting on his backside playing computer games while you and his father go out to your second and third jobs. really, your DS should be ashamed of himself.

He is nearly at the end of his 2 year course and he demands you sit down and help him with his essay? that is not the action of someone who knows their subject. It's what a primary school chid would do.

He's academically failed the first year of this course, then repeated it, is a year older than the other pupils and yet he still needs tutoring? Basically he needs his hand held, because he is either too lazy to work by himself or because the work is beyond him. Either way - he is not going to cope at university academically. I can't see him managing socially either - he is reclusive and very, very dependent on you and his father to provide every need. At university he's going to meet all sorts of people, many of whom have worked for several years and most of whom can already take care of themselves in a way that is beyond your DS.

Perhaps his lack of friends is precisely because he is so lazy, self-centred and has such a narrow field of focus?

Perhaps he could solve both his lack of money and his need to keep fit by getting a job gardening. Lots of exercise to be had digging, hacking chopping and heaving all that vegetation. One of the most well-toned muscular young men I know has been earning a very nice wage for himself since the age of 16 and throughout undergrad and postgrad courses running a small tree-management business, felling inconvenient trees or lopping off inconvenient branches and rendering them down to nice fireplace-sized logs for a network of neighbours with large gardens.

With Katie it's a start but not nearly enough.
You should be cancelling the gym etc. If he wants it let him get a job.