To think of asking a solicitor to write to DS & DH on my behalf?

[Morven11]

DC, 19, A levels - won't get a job - has never thought he could/should combine study and work, even a few hours a week.

And a few hours a week even would make such a difference. We pay a gym sub (that has to stop); protein powders; extra food as he won't often eat what's in the kitchen (which, btw, is wholesome and varied - not many would complain). Tutors twice a week as he fell behind in his studies. He's doing OK - easily, easily time to work a few hours a week and make a reasonable contribution to his particular costs.

DH's job insecure. I work full time and, to make ends meet, have a couple of part time jobs. I'm exhausted. I've talked to DS - many times - and got no-where.

Something has crossed my mind - as DS won't listen - and DH is reluctant to insist that DS at least looks for work (and of course we'd help with that - in fact have done but he's not taken the next steps) and, in the meantime, to cut back on his gym etc. And that's go get someone to write to DS and maybe DH, too - in my most tired moments, and when I'm worried sick (which is quite often) about finances (they are severely stretched and incomes are modest) - I think that paying some solicitor or similar to spell it out. That his mum/DH's wife can't go on like this. Drastic, probably a daft idea, but might serve its purpose? I have no close family who could intervene.

I understand how the badgering can wear you down, especially when you are already tired. Don't discuss any further than no I am not doing that you are old enough to fund it yourself. Say it once then state you are not going to discuss the matter any further.

Reread yes definitely and keep this for when you are wavering,

Someone mentioned killing him with kindness. I agree. It's a bit like the parents who feed their kids treats all the time as that is how they show their love. They can't see how this is doing them no favours as being fat makes life difficult with their peers not to mention the health aspect. They are doing it out of love and they want to make their children happy, but long term the opposite happens.

You love your ds and want him to be happy. That means doing what is best for him. Enabling him as you are currently doing is not what is best for his future success and happiness.

He will kick back initially. Who wouldn't when their comfy status quo is being challenged, but be strong and do him a favour long term.

No is all you need to say. If he gets upset let him scream and shout and stand firm.

As an FYI those protein shakes are awful. DH sells pig blood plasma to companies that make high protein shakes and bars. Even he cringes at the thought of people eating it. Normally that stuff is sold for medical research purposes.

If he has already failed, and is repeating a year, with the help of two tutors for him to get to UNI, are you really sure UNI is the way to go for him?

Is he motivated for UNI? Is he cut out for it?
Or is it what you want?

What will happen to this young man, who is being babied by his parents, and cant get to grips with his learning, once he gets to uni? Will he rack up horrible debts and leave without a degree?

Should he not start proving himself rather than you badgering on about him contributing to his costs?

Decide what you want! For him to continue learning and give him the space and time, or WORK?!

Stay strong OP

Possibly not that helpful in the grand scheme of things but to replace the protein powder he could make a shake from milk, peanut butter and banana. And oats
I use protein but finance them myself!

Nope, I would not be saying 'please' or 'sorry' to him - tell him NO means NO!! Your DS is really taking the piss

Also if he's got coursework to do tomorrow I'd tell him to crack on...and switch the wifi off...

Time for tough love.

If he wants things like gym memberships & protein powders, he pays for them! Which means getting a job.

You are teaching him to sponge off others & not pay his way, which will not get him many friends in life.

Stop it now. Anything that is a 'luxury' (gym, powders, extra food etc) is up to the person who wants it.

And you said you posted this before & are embarrassed about doing so again, because you failed...only you can put these in place. You are failing your child by letting him be so reliant on you!

Don't be dong any housework for him. Of course he should be making his own bed! Does he wash his own dishes? Clean his share of the kitchen. Please tell me you aren't still washing & ironing his clothes?

If he wants a maid he can pay for one.

If he has time for the gym he has time for a job.

Could he do a gardening job thereby killing two birds with one stone

I agree with everything others have said. Stop paying for so much. No gym membership or stupidly expensive special shakes and food.

Why are you writing his essay with him? Don't. It makes no sense at all. If he does eventually go to uni then he will have to be able to write them for himself or they just won't get done and he will probably have to drop out. You won't be there. He will be on his own so he might as well get used to that now. If he can't then perhaps he will have to ditch the idea of uni.

The simple answer to give him, should he kick off and moan about being told no to the gym/shakes/extra food is "if you don't like living here you're more than welcome to look for somewhere else to live, at your own expense and move out."
He's a grown up, so let him act like one.

OP, I just want to give you a hug. I am a mum to be myself so have no experience but I have been on the other side of it, obviously.

As upbringings go, mine was pretty priveleged, parents paid for private music lessons, dance lessons, holidays in France every summer and for musical holidays abroad on our own when they could afford it, and they sent us all to uni, though that was pre tuition fees and we got small grants, so nothing like the financial nightmare it can be now. The crucial difference was they gave us money to spend based on what they could afford, and if we overspent, tough, we got jobs during the holidays to pay for anything else we wanted.

We were also made aware of the value of money from a very early age, and although both my parents worked full time, they retired reasonably early, and there is no way I could have sat by wasting money on things like gym memberships and protein powder if my poor Mum was knackering herself with three jobs to pay for them. I think your DS needs a major attitude shift and that is really hard to accomplish when you are so tired as it seems he is capable of ignoring your distress and carrying on doing what he wants.

It would be hard to cut off everything straight away but the protein powder and extra food for his fussy little palate need to go in my view. If you could afford those things on a normal wage then fine, but you can't, and you shouldn't have to work extra to satisfy his whims. Gyms can be a nightmare about getting out of memberships, so you may be stuck with it for a while, but you could say he needs to give notice or find a way to pay for it himself. As for the private tuition, having gone down that road, it may not be fair to just cut him off, but you could say it's until end of academic year only and after that, he's on his own as you will be giving up at least one of your jobs after that.

Please talk to him, explain how tired you are, that you won't keep working like is to fund him, that you need time for your own life and to pursue your own interests.

The key difference is between can't and won't. The plain fact is that I am sure you could keep killing yourself for years supporting DS but you shouldn't have to, so you need to say you won't. And then once you've made that decision, stick to it, and if he bitches and moans about it, ignore him.

I look back on the times my parents wouldn't pay for x y and z and to be honest, I do feel a bit like they could have helped us more sometimes, but I am eternally grateful for the fact that although they gave us a leg up by paying for our studies, they encouraged us to be independent too, making our own decisions and living with consequences if we overspent. All of us got jobs within a couple of months of graduating and were expected to support ourselves pretty much straight away.

Don't look back, whatever you do. It's really easy to feel guilty when you're so emotionally and physically worn out and blame yourself for not making him more independent and Yada Yada Yada. Don't. You've been hugely supportive to him so far but it's clearly killing you. Yes kids are your responsibility, but at some point they have to start taking responsibility for their own lives. It's fair enough to go to bank of mum and dad in an emergency, like, unexpected job loss or some kind of catastrophic unforeseen event, but only if mum and dad a) can afford it, ie, don't have to work three jobs to afford it, b) there is no ore alternative, neither of those is true in the case your DS.

And on the solicitor's letter, I can see how that would be tempting but bad idea. I would only resort to that if your relationship with your son has irretrievably broken down, as if it hasn't already, getting legal on his ass will certainly do it for you....

I really hope things get better for you soon. As for your DH, it would be better if you could present a united approach, but if he won't support you, that's his look out, if he isn't ready to cut the apron strings he will just have to be the one finding yet more extra work to fund DS.

Sorry this is so long. But I really do feel for you and how distressed you seem, good luck...

I understand what you're aiming for with a solicitor. If I were you I'd schedule a Family Meeting to create a sense of urgency, you could come armed with a spreadsheet of what you're spending on him to underscore your point.

expecting me to give up tomorrow to write an essay with him
If this is his attitude in his resit year, he will fail university. If he can't pass his resits without getting his mum to do the work, then it's probably best if he fails the resits and doesn't go to uni till he's grown up a bit. There's lots of other options for those who don't go to uni.

Every time you say yes to him, you are contributing to his future failure. Good parenting, at this stage, means saying no.

Ah, the old conundrum of how to best protect your children. I understand why you think it's by paying for him to be happy & safe, but I'm with the other mumsnetters: he's a grown man, time to stop.

I have experience of both parenting styles, by way of proof: My older brother and sister were 'protected' financially: allowed to stay on in the house as long as they liked (no surprise this lasted until their 30s), food, bills, education - which changed erratically depending on their penchant that year - paid for. They have both never been able to survive on their own financially and always relied on help (deposits for flats, cash supplements, etc).

When I finished school, 17, I was ordered by my mother to get a job. 'What? Where?' I asked. My mother slammed a yellow pages down in front of me and said 'start at A, and work your way through the alphabet until someone gives you a job'. It was also made clear to me that as soon as I could leave our house I must.

I was TERRIFIED the day of my first job as a receptionist but ended up loving it. Saved enough money to backpack around the world on my 'gap' year (where, when i needed extra cash, I'd walk into huge, glass, multinationals and asked for a job on the spot because i'd gained the confidence) until I went to university. Straight out of university i'd taken virtually the first job I was offered because I knew I needed money asap. As soon as I could I got a 100% mortgage for a little flat, and that was it - I was now totally financially independent young professional.

Weird side-effect of having been virtually bullied into working and pretty much thrown out of the house: my relationship with my mother totally changed for the better. Because if I saw her it wasn't because I needed to (living at home, asking for money, etc) but because I wanted to. And she knew that.

I know its hard. But I'd be far more radical than the mumsnetters suggest: throw him out of the house. He'll kip at friends etc but, eventually, realise he has to get a job (after all, if his friends flatshare etc then presumably they have jobs too) to survive.
And he'll thank you for it later (I realise you're scared he won't. But I really think he will).

I agree you are responsible for creating a Cocklodger.

Re the tutoring and uni, I agree with pp that if he is struggling at this stage, uni is probably not the best option for him. There you are expected to self motivate and direct your own studies, particularly in arts and social science subjects where you may have only a few contact hours per week. Somebody who expects his mother to help him write an essay does not sound ready for this. All the more reason to encourage him to stand on his own feet.

Or were you secretly hoping that uni was a way of getting him to leave home?

I do sympathise OP but you know it all has to stop - not just the money but the way you are letting him treat you. As well as probably growing into an adult who thinks the world owes him a living he will be an awful partner, he will probably treat all women with a lack it respect.

My eldest DS is nearly 22 and ok we didn't take any dig money off him when he was a paper boy but made it clear he had to work for the things he wanted in life. When he was 16/17/18/19 he was a milkboy before school and then college, he saved up for his own driving lessons as we weren't going to pay them. Now he's 21 and in an apprenticeship and had bought a car which is his pride and joy with a bank loan he obtained for himself. He still lives at home and we charge him dig money now. I listen to him and his plans for the future, which include buying a flat with his girlfriend in the next few years and doing as much overtime as he can to help save a deposit. I am so proud, not only of him and his attitude but the fact we helped shape this. Good luck OP, it's not too late!

I think the problem is that your dc is putting time into gym and not studying. He should be using the time to study, then he wouldn't need a tutor. This is pretty obvious because he fell behind the first year ... More focused in the gym?

I also think the problem (and I'm sure it is one I could be 'guilty' of in the future) is that your avoiding the confrontation by giving him what he needs. I really get this!

But the longer it goes on, the worse it is becoming. A solicitor's letter is just trying to find another way to get out of it all, when really the only way to do it is to withdraw/minimise the funding you are giving him.

Sorry op, it's shit ... Wishing you lots of strength to confront the situation...

definitely stop the gym, protein shakes and tutors now.
The gym and shakes are total indulgences that you cannot afford. Cancel the first and refuse to buy the second. I would cancel the tutors too if he's at college. What he needs is some damn hard graft at his studies, putting the effort in himself.

Now for the hard bit: from all you say your DS will struggle to get in to university and will then struggle to pass even first year. He's lazy, self-centred and incapable of taking any responsibility for himself. He's already a year behind and requiring expensive tutoring. None of that bodes well for any future studies. And the mere idea of a 19 year old demanding his mum writes an essay with him is laughable!! Checking it/proofing it is one thing, but this is quite different. TBH it sounds as if he's going to stay at home forever, and keep on demanding to be treated like a little prince because he is too good to work like the rest of us.

Your DS has no motivation. He demands and you give in. You sound scared of him.

Doing A Levels is no reason at all not to also be working. My 19 year old is in 2nd year at uni and works 20 hours a week in a call-centre, 5 to 9 each night.

Tell him what is happening. No discussion, no detailed explanations about finances (that is your business and he just has to accept it) and definitely no excuses from him. he needs to get his finger out of his arse and start to take responsibility for his own life. if he doesn't like your new rules, then he's free to move out. You cannot pander to this young dictator any longer.

If at 19 years of age he needs tutors in order to pass his school exams (that he is already repeating because he was too lazy to study), and needs his mummy to take a whole day to help him write an essay, then I don't think he is cut out for uni. He'll be one of those students who gets mummy to call in for him when he has a tummy ache and needs an extension on his assignment. Tell him to go to work for a few years, then decide if he wants to put in the effort for uni or not.

Totally unnecessary.

Where does your son get the money to pay the gym and the protein shakes? If he's on an allowance, cut it. If the gym comes out of your account, cancel it. You can't make him get a job (and if he's studying I'm not sure I would be too harsh on him about that) but you can force him to cut his cloth according to your means.

The problem is your husbands job. It's up to your husband to pull his weight. What does he do?