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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To feel like never working an extra minute outside of my set hours ever again?

42 replies

Whowillsaveyoursoul · 23/01/2015 14:00

I'm a TA so only get paid minimum wage anyway. I love my job so that makes up for the crappy pay.

However ds (5) has a hospital appointment in a few weeks and it falls in my normal working hours. I've managed to get it for 9am so I will probably be about an hour and a half late in.
Work have okayed this which I'm grateful for but have said I have to make the time up.

I regularly work though lunch breaks, take work home etc. I've attended several staff meetings outside of my usual hours, they've been after school so I've had to pay for additional childcare and in December I helped at both christmas productions which were in the evening and added up to at least an additional 6 hours.
I've never claimed any time back - no one does - but I'm aware that every week I am in fact strictly speaking being paid less than minimum wage. I don't get paid for lunch hours so that's definitely three extra hours a week. I know it sounds petty and I don't usually mind but this 'making the time up' has annoyed me!

I suppose they have to say I need to make the time back as it sets a precedent but Aibu to be perhaps irrationally irked by this? It will mean putting ds into after school club an additional day as I will have to work the afternoon and my school finishes later than his.
I'm sorely tempted to never do anything outside my set hours ever again!

I work every morning and it's a morning clinic so I can't move the appointment.

OP posts:
angelos02 · 23/01/2015 14:01

YANBU. Perhaps keep your own TOIL sheet so you can show how many extra hours you've worked?

cailindana · 23/01/2015 14:02

YANBU.

HumphreyCobbler · 23/01/2015 14:03

I would be incredibly annoyed by this too. I once had an review with my HT, I had been doing SO MUCH extra stuff for the school, covering a colleague who was ill, doing all her planning, INCERTS, report writing etc. I just willingly picked up the slack. His only comment was that I sat down too much when I taught. FFS. I had just had severe morning sickness and a bloody miscarriage, of course I sat down for a bit. I left.

shovetheholly · 23/01/2015 14:04

Honestly, people are such IDIOTS. Why would you jeopardise a situation where you have absolutely brilliant people giving you their time for free by taking an attitude like that? It is just so counterproductive.

I would make a list of the extra hours you've worked just in the last month and present it to them.

And then suggest that if they are going to account time by the minute, they might want to think about whether they will be the losers doing so.

knittingirl · 23/01/2015 14:05

YANBU. For the week before or after the appointment, keep a record of all the extra hours you do in the normal course of the week - lunch hours etc, so that you can show you've made it up, which it sounds like you would in a few days. I don't think that you should do "extra" on top of your normal extra to make up this time.

FamilyAdventure · 23/01/2015 14:18

TA pay is rubbish, but you shouldn't be on minimum wage!

The "rules" at our school are that time has to be made up, but no-one checks to make sure it is, unless someone starts taking the Michael. Are you actually going to have to make it up? If you've already done extra hours can't you just say you've made the time up in advance?

ThatBloodyWoman · 23/01/2015 14:23

Yanbu.
I would (and do in such situations) either make the time up or take annual leave - I work the hours I am paid for -any extra being agreed in advance and paid.

AntiHop · 23/01/2015 14:26

Yanbu. I'm shocked that TAs are paid min wage. I had no idea.

I agree there should be give and take. You regularly work over your hours so there should be some give and take. I had managers like this previously. They knew that I had worked over my hours every single day. But they would be inflexible about starting a bit late occasionally. I think we should be treated like adults and trusted.

wishmiplass · 23/01/2015 14:28

Agree with knittingirl. If you're already accruing the unpaid hours, present those as the ones they require you to make up. Cheeky twats.

kaykayred · 23/01/2015 14:31

I think you should do as others have suggested - write a list of all the staff meetings you have attended outside of your work hours, and then present that to them.

For the christmas play, I assume that is something you took on voluntarily, so can't really use that.

FamilyAdventure · 23/01/2015 14:31

They're not AntiHop. It's a nationally agreed payscale and the bottom is just over £8 per hour (which is low but a significant % above min wage at £6.50). It rises fairly quickly with experience. Op if you really are on minimum wage, that's the bit you need to sort out.

thatsenoughelsa · 23/01/2015 14:35

YANBU. It's horrible when you put your heart and soul into a job and it's not appreciated. When will employers learn that if you want to hang onto good staff you have to make them feel valued?

My Boss is very laid back about this sort of thing because she knows that there will be give and take. For example, if I have to leave an hour early to take DD to the doctor no one minds because they know I am happy to work through lunch/do a bit of work at home/change my days if something needs doing. It balances out in the end.

Perhaps you should (calmly, when it's not quite so raw) tell your Boss how this has made you feel.

Original poster
Whowillsaveyoursoul · 23/01/2015 14:39

God I definitely don't get £8 an hour.
I get bang on minimum wage.
I thought that was normal?

OP posts:
HumphreyCobbler · 23/01/2015 14:59

Is your pay spread out to cover holiday times? Or does it stop during the break?

CleanLinesSharpEdges · 23/01/2015 15:04

Are you actually going to be expected to work extra to make the time up or is it just some generic blurb that's put on the approval email/conversation?

If yes, then I'd be logging every single minute and presenting that to my supervisor.

YouTheCat · 23/01/2015 15:12

Just point out all the extra hours they've been getting out of you for free if anyone says anything. If they say you still need to work the extra to cover the time you have off, withdraw your goodwill hours.

I'm also a TA. I get about £9ph but I have 12 years experience. I'm expected to work 9-11 and was also being expected to set up for my phonics group, which takes at least 15 minutes, ready to start at 9. I have very quietly changed my hours and now work 8.45 till 10.45. I occasionally will give them a 'free' 10 minutes. I've done this after many years of doing 2-4 hours a week extra for no more pay and no bloody thanks.

FamilyAdventure · 23/01/2015 15:16

No you really need to get that checked out OP. What point are you on? You should be level 2, points 10-14 at least.

OrangesJuicyOranges · 23/01/2015 15:25

I'm afraid your HT has to do this. If not they would be in trouble with HR. Simply keep a record for a week of your 'normal' hours and hand then in showing where you've made time up. Honestly, I hate telling a TA this as I know how hard they work, usually above and beyond and for not great pay. But we HAVE to say it. It's not personal it's not rudeness, it's just the rules. I hope your school lets you know you're appreciated. If it makes you feel any better, which I'm guessing it may not, the HT and teachers also work ludicrous hours and get heaps of stick from parents, officials etc. teaching is a tough job, really tough. Keep your eyes on that you're doing this for the children not the adults. And please don't decide to go all militant with your hours. It will make you feel bitter

FamilyAdventure · 23/01/2015 15:30

Oranges, I really hope you don't use that one for your own TA's. Try working out the hourly rate for yourself and compare it to the TA's. Be honest, we know teachers work more than 9-3 and that they do some work in the holidays but they really don't work the hours some would have us believe. I have a teacher DH, DM & DF. They work hard but they don't work harder than people in comparable jobs. Teachers, once off the very bottom rung, are really well paid, trouble is they believe all the stuff the "militants" tell them.

Viviennemary · 23/01/2015 15:32

Yes I think I would do 'a work to rule' for a good few weeks to make them get the point. It's a nerve. Or as others have suggested make a note of unpaid hours and say you won't be doing any more in view of the fact it doesn't seem to be a two way thing.

BakewellSlice · 23/01/2015 15:34

"go all militant" sounds so unreasonable!

However calmly working the hours paid like YouTheCat has described is the way to go in future.

DecaffCoffeeAndRollupsPlease · 23/01/2015 15:39

YANBU

YouTheCat · 23/01/2015 15:43

I was working between 25-50% more than my paid hours. And I was still expected to do prep at home too - usually prep that teachers were being paid to do and not doing. TAs don't get any PPA time.

laylaloulou · 23/01/2015 15:49

I would, as others have suggested, make a list of extra hours worked in the week leading up to the appointment and show the headteacher the list so they can see that you've made up the hours in advance. I would also say in writing when giving them the list that these are the standard extra hours that you do every single week.

Original poster
Whowillsaveyoursoul · 23/01/2015 15:55

Pay is 6.54 an hour.
I could argue they are breaking the law by me doing extra hours because it takes it lower than minimum wage.

I volunteered to go for the christmas productions but they asked for people to help, if no one had helped they wouldn't have been able to do it.

OP posts:
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