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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To feel like never working an extra minute outside of my set hours ever again?

42 replies

Whowillsaveyoursoul · 23/01/2015 14:00

I'm a TA so only get paid minimum wage anyway. I love my job so that makes up for the crappy pay.

However ds (5) has a hospital appointment in a few weeks and it falls in my normal working hours. I've managed to get it for 9am so I will probably be about an hour and a half late in.
Work have okayed this which I'm grateful for but have said I have to make the time up.

I regularly work though lunch breaks, take work home etc. I've attended several staff meetings outside of my usual hours, they've been after school so I've had to pay for additional childcare and in December I helped at both christmas productions which were in the evening and added up to at least an additional 6 hours.
I've never claimed any time back - no one does - but I'm aware that every week I am in fact strictly speaking being paid less than minimum wage. I don't get paid for lunch hours so that's definitely three extra hours a week. I know it sounds petty and I don't usually mind but this 'making the time up' has annoyed me!

I suppose they have to say I need to make the time back as it sets a precedent but Aibu to be perhaps irrationally irked by this? It will mean putting ds into after school club an additional day as I will have to work the afternoon and my school finishes later than his.
I'm sorely tempted to never do anything outside my set hours ever again!

I work every morning and it's a morning clinic so I can't move the appointment.

OP posts:

Nanny0gg · 23/01/2015 16:18

Then you should have had time off in lieu.

Which you're now taking...

YouTheCat · 23/01/2015 16:43

I think it's disgusting that you're being paid, effectively, less than minimum wage for what is a skilled job.

I have a second role as a lunchtime supervisor and that is £7.50ph.

proudmum74 · 23/01/2015 16:52

YADNBU! My DD has 2 TAs and they are absolutely amazing! I am appalled that you are paid just above minimum wage, as I know how much my DD TAs do for her, and what a genuine difference they make to her life.

pommedeterre · 23/01/2015 17:01

Bad management is widespread. You are being badly managed.

thecatfromjapan · 23/01/2015 17:07

I knew this would be a thread about TAs!
Same at our school: minimum wage. My hours are organised around lunch and mid-morning break. I don't get paid for those hours, so am officially part-time. However, I often end up working in them, and I am expected to come in early and leave late. And, yes, I will research stuff in my own time.
Time off is unpaid and deducted from wages.
I love the job but it is annoyingly exploitative - a female job.
You have all my sympathy, OP.

FamilyAdventure · 23/01/2015 17:09

Schools are free to set their own absence policies (even maintained ones) so, it's nothing to do with "having" to manage you like this. At our school we recognise that TAs are invaluable and badly paid, so our absence policy allows one "free" non-sickness absence per term. We would pay OP in this situation, provided she hasn't already had to wait in for the washing machine man or been to the dentist herself. But then we have decent mangers in charge who know that, of course the human reaction to being "managed" the way OP is, is to want to work to rule.

OP, I really think the most pressing thing you need to resolve here is your salary. You can't be in the correct grade for your role and getting £6.54 p/hr, you just can't. My advice would be to go back to your line manger, tell them you've made up the hours in advance (which you can document) but also tell them you've taken advice and you think your salary point is wrong, please can it be reviewed.

FamilyAdventure · 23/01/2015 17:19

[[http://www.navca.org.uk/localvs/scales/ Local Government Salary Scales)

I've just checked our LA jobs boards and all entry level TA jobs are advertised at points 11-14. Point 11 FTE annual salary = £15207, which I make £8.36p/hr, based on a FT week being 35 hours.

FamilyAdventure · 23/01/2015 17:20

Local govt salary scales

Try link again

It's still poor for the value a good TA adds IMO, but it's not minimum wage

BackforGood · 23/01/2015 17:28

As a teacher, if a TA that worked alongside me had been told that, then I would have gone to the HT and reminded them of all the time the school already "owed" the TA retrospectively, and pointed out that if school wanted to be petty over making up hours, then school would lose out in the long term, all the goodwill that they had been getting up to now.
Is there a teacher you work with (or maybe someone who line manages TAs? or maybe a 'senior' or HLTA) in your school that might be willing to speak to the HT quietly about this, not only on your behalf, but on behalf of everyone who might need an hour another time ?

I too am amazed that any TA is working for minimum wage - they don't usually in our LA although are still underpaid for what they do.

UncleT · 23/01/2015 17:36

Why didn't you just immediately say something? What's the use in fuming away without directly asking them to allow you to take this time back? They may be being clueless. Say something!

IrenetheQuaint · 23/01/2015 17:44

Did they actually say you had to make the time up the same day? It's hard to tell from your post whether they're actually being unreasonable or have just said what they have to say, and would be happy with a note showing the extra hours you've worked that week anyway.

cassgate · 23/01/2015 17:45

I am a ta and I too am surprised that your hourly rate is so low. I was initially employed last year as a level 1 ta as I didn't have any experience or ta qualification and my hourly rate was £7.11. I qualified as a level 3 in the summer and my contract was renewed at the level 3 rate which works out at an hourly rate of £8.23. I also work as an msa at lunchtime and my hourly rate for that is roughly £6.50. Please check that you are being paid the correct rate. Regarding the making up the hours comment I would do as others have suggested and record the extra you do as a matter of course and once you have completed the extra present it to the head. The head at my school would never dream of making such a comment as she knows that most of the ta's go above and beyond (unpaid) and its about give and take.

Ohwhatfuckeryisthis · 23/01/2015 17:58

That is total shite(for you, not casting aspersions) I may be lucky in that our school, any application for leave like this is always granted, without any expectation of time being made up because SLT know how much extra support staff do. I'd be keeping a record too-especially in the week leading up to the appointment.

captainfarrell · 23/01/2015 18:01

I'M a TA too and know what you mean. We have to make time up but if my teacher is aware of the extra hours she/he could have a word for you. The head probably doesn't know that you work over your hours regularly. Everyone is so busy in a school and for teachers it's usual to work non stop but they are salaried.

Playthegameout · 23/01/2015 18:18

It is procedure but I feel YADNBU!
TA's at my school work so hard. They're expected to work out of hours all the time but get no extra pay and it's never recognised by the powers that be. I just don't understand it. They're expected to put in so much but get a pittance. It's a joke.

maninawomansworld · 23/01/2015 18:35

It is extremely crappy of them when you do so much unpaid but as other have said - they have their set rules.

I would just keep a spreadsheet of your hours for next week including all the time that you work without pay such as your lunchtimes and then present that at the end of the week.

There is no way in hell I would be staying back one afternoon. surely the time in your lunch hours alone will more cover it! If they don't accept this then I'd make damn sure to sit down at lunchtime and not lift a finger until you are back 'on the clock'.

What you do going forward is up to you but be careful about being too militant. If you regard your job as part of a 'career' that might lead on to other things then you want to be the one given all the opportunities / training etc so you'll have to play the game as this overworking culture is pretty ingrained. If however it's 'just a job' then sod them, work the hours you're paid for and go home.

Nomama · 23/01/2015 18:50

My TAs and teaching staff take time, they know they should make it up, we all know that they won't as they will have enough hours 'in the bag'.

I can't imagine working in any school where this isn't the done thing. OK, we line managers have to ensure all hours are worked, but we are all sodding adults....

As a line manager I would accept a reassurance that all was OK. I wouldn't expect a report or anything remotely resembling proof. Well, not unless someone was taking the piss, obviously!

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