To be worried about a family member but not want to get involved.

[thatsenoughelsa]

Let me preface this by saying that although the dilemma here is (sort of) benefits related, this is absolutely NOT a benefits bashing thread and I don't want this to turn into a debate about benefits as that's really not constructive and would be missing the point of the thread. Will try to keep this brief but don't want to drip feed.

I have a cousin who is in her mid twenties and is a single Mum to 2 lovely, school aged DC's. We were very close growing up but have drifted apart slightly over the years. We still see each other regularly though and I have remained very close to her Mum, my Aunt.

My Cousin is a SAHM. She claims benefits and does not have any additional income that anyone is aware of. Several family members, friends etc have commented that she seems to have a very extravagant lifestyle (nice car, beautiful privately rented flat in a nice part of town, goes out clubbing and for spa days with friends regularly, only wears designer clothes and same for DC's, always has hair/nails done etc) for someone on a small income. I always try to change the subject as I don't like speculating about other people's finances but more and more people have been mentioning it and it's getting to be very awkward.

One of her DC's had a birthday party a few weeks ago. She had hired a very nice venue in town, a professional photographer, there was a children's entertainer and she had a beautiful three tier cake made. There were a lot of whispers of "this must have cost a fortune!" and "how can she afford this?" from the adults and it made me feel very uncomfortable. I don't like gossip and part of me wanted to tell them to mind their own business but at the same time I could see why they were curious as it was very extravagant for a child's party.

My Aunt came round yesterday and was very upset and tearful, which isn't like her at all. My Cousin had apparently told her that she has booked a two week holiday to Greece in a 5* resort for her and DC's. She has already booked to go to Spain for a week on a friends hen do so my Aunty asked her how could she afford it, where she got the money from etc. My Cousin got very upset and angry, told her Mum to stop interfering in her life and stormed out.

My Aunt told me she is worried that my Cousin is either a.) claiming more than she is entitled to and will get into trouble or b.) living on credit and getting into massive amounts of debt or c.) is involved in something illegal but she has no idea what it could be.

I hated seeing my Aunty so upset (she has had a lot of health problems in the last year and doesn't need the stress) and to be honest, I think her concerns are valid. I work with vulnerable families, many of whom claim benefits so I know that the tabloid tales about unemployed people living like Kings in great big Mansions are absolute bollocks. Most of the single Mum's on benefits I work with really struggle to make ends meet and they freuquently go without to make sure their DC are fed and clothed properly. So, yes, of course I can see that my Cousin's lifestyle just doesn't add up.

My Aunty has asked me to talk to my Cousin and try to find out what is going on. She thinks that she "looks up to" me (not sure about that) and is more likely to open up to me than her Mum or Dad who she accuses of interfering.

I feel very torn. I know my Aunt and Uncle are worried sick and I would like to help but on the other hand I'm reluctant to get involved. I loathe confrontation. It's not in my nature to go around asking people about their personal finances, even if we are related and I can't see it ending well. DH says "don't get involved" and that if she is committing benefit fraud/in debt/whatever then it's her own fault if she gets into trouble. It's not that easy though. I've known this girl her whole life, I love her and I feel responsible for her to an extent. Also there are children involved.

Having turned it over and over in my head, my gut feeling is to keep my nose out but I know my Aunt will be disappointed. So, MN jury, what do you think? Am I being unreasonable to deny my Aunt's request and do nothing? Is there anything to be gained from my getting involved?

I would say:

Not benefit fraud because - as others have said - it wouldn't fund this extreme level of extravagance.

Same thing sort of applies to credit card fraud - seems to have been going on for too long for it not to have caught up on her. I would have thought she would definitely have been evicted, for example.

Which only leaves something illegal (especially if you think a rich boyfriend would have been made public) and, yes, your instinct to leave it all alone is correct.

But it's not going to have a happy ending so maybe you and your family should think about what will happen then, especially with her kids.

Thank you so much for all your replies. I was feeling very conflicted because my Aunt has been so good to me over the years and I don't want to let her down but I realise now that I need to trust my instincts and keep out of it. I doubt she would disclose anything to me anyway and even if she did, as pp have said, knowing about it doesn't mean you can do anything about it. Also, from a selfish point of view (and I realise it is very selfish but I'm being honest), I don't want to get caught up in anything dodgy so if anything illegal is going on I'd rather not know. Thanks again for your advice.

I think it's unlikely to be a rich boyfriend/being the mistress of a rich man, that might explain some of the things for herself, but not for the DCs.

I read your OP and assumed prostitiution or drugs. Given she's a woman, it's more likely to be the first.

I can see why it's worth having a chat, if she's in debt up to her eyeballs, she might need help to sort it out. If she's cheating the system (either just claiming additional things or working and claiming what she was entitled to before), she needs to be told that many people are commenting that her lifestyle doesn't match her benefit entitlement and sooner or later someone's going to report. If she's working legally but doing something she doesn't want to tell your Aunt about (like lapdancing), then say she should put her Mum's mind at rest and say she's got a job in a bar. She doesn't need to tell her the details, but explain your Aunty is worried she's just doing all the spending on credit.

The other issue if it's prostitution, is how much danger is she putting herself/the DCs in? Is she bringing clients to the house? Has she got somewhere else to work from? Is she working through an escort agency? Again, it's not something you might want to discuss with her, but worth at least sounding out if she is prepared to talk.

More htan anything, if you care about your cousin, you do need to point out to her just how many people are commenting, whatever she's doing, she needs to be a bit more discreet, she's going to get reported shortly, if she's not been already. You can't be that showy with cash while on benefits without someone reporting.

Oh x post with you saying you don't want to get involved if it is illegal.

I'd just hae a quick word and tell her that you don't want to know where her money's coming from, but a lot of people are commenting that there's more than there should be for someone on loan parent benefits, there's a good chance one of those people will report her so she might want to make sure she's got her house in order/tell everyone she's got a job.

I don't think it's benefit fraud or a rich boyfriend either.

There are lots of other illegal things that aren't drugs or prostitution and I think it could be something like that. Examples include stealing to order, fraud like stolen credit cards, money laundering for others.

It's a difficult one OP and I'm sure you will make the right decision.

Sorry my first thought was that she's either a prostitute or a dealer (drugs) or she's involved in some other illegal thing, maybe customs fraud (imported fags and booze) etc. Benefit fraud wouldn't amount to that much. But neither would dabbling in a small way in the illegal stuff I mentioned, to be honest, she's into something in a fairly major way if this is the case.

Fingers crossed she's got herself a rich married lover who is giving her money and she can't be open about the relationship. Although that is a whole other can of worms, of course.

I can see why you don't want to get involved. But you could warn her that people are talking so trouble could be on its way.

I would be 99% certain that she is growing illegal substances in her spare bedroom/attic.

Based on my career, a LOT of people (more than you could ever imagine) make money this way. it pays very well and it holds a very light sentence when caught so risk is minimal. 8/10 is a caution only.

You will probably never be able to find this out for sure unless you raid her house which I presume you are not going to do. She isn't going to tell you, the only indicators would be that she doesn't very often have guests to her house and she has a few 'alternative' 'friends'. A lot of single mums get paid to have 'factories' within their very own houses!

my first reaction was "dealing"

My first thought was that she is using credit cards. I am a social worker and see it so often. I reckon it's more likely than the illegal options but it's impossible to say without knowing the person.

YANBU to not want to get involved. I wouldn't. You might not like what you find out.

RasberryMilk, I really hope it's not drugs. My Anut and Uncle have always been very "anti" anything to do with drugs as they have a good friend whose son had a serious addiction and has now sadly passed away as a result. It would break their hearts. I don't think my Aunt will have considered for one minute that this could be the explanation.

I wouldn't get involved but at a push I'd tell her that people have been commenting, hopefully she'd then tone it down.

I knew a family like this.

The dad went to prison for drug dealing and the mum went to prison for living off his drug earnings.

I hope not also! I had not considered credit cards either but that is a feasible option.. she would not struggle to obtain credit cards even though she doesn't have a job - the credit card rarely check these day. She may be snappy as aware she is in trouble but this would be far more manageable than any of the other potential options. And maybe she isn't ready to give up living the high life yet!

Definitely sounds odd. The housing thing more than anything. Presumably she claims housing benefit, which she would need a tenancy agreement for, if her flat is something special and very expensive, that would flag a concern from the council she is claiming from as to how she could afford the extra. Same from the landlords point of view, renting to a single mum on benefits surely there would be a concern that the rent wouldn't be paid if housing benefit didn't cover it. Unless she paid a large amount upfront in cash. Or landlord is some kind of big drug lord and your cousin is dealing for him. Honestly my first thought was dealing, closely followed by escorting/lap dancing. That begs the question who is taking care of the kids at night though? Very strange.

It won't be a rich boyfriend. That would explain presents for herself but it wouldn't explain parties for her children etc.

I think she's doing something that means she has to look nice, which would either be escorting or web cam work.

The problem is that if she's using her bank account for her purchases, then this will easily lead to her being found out. She does need to be very careful.

Is she 100% definitely claiming benefits? She could be doing the webcam work or whatever, completely legitimately and just tells people she is on benefits to cover herself.

If it was me I'd want to know so I could help her sort things out of she's in trouble. As you said you're not that close these days, I can understand why it would be a difficult subject to tackle. I would want to help out my aunt if I was you.

In reality, most women don't make a lot of money from prostitution or lap dancing. And women often get abused and exploited. So I'd want to be there for her of that's what's happening.

I struggle to believe she's living on benefits at all to be honest, she'd need to be signing on at the job centre and attending compulsory work experience if she was, otherwise she would have her benefits stopped. And there is really no way to defraud benefits if you are an out of work lone parent. The most likely ways to commit benefit fraud are either to claim as a lone parent whilst living with a partner, sign on whilst working cash in hand or to declare a lower income than you have to tax credits. There are no other sources of benefits to be claimed.

It's pretty much impossible to save if you are genuinely living on jsa and tax credits, at least not enough to have that sort of lifestyle. She's either living on credit (but I can't see how she accesses that much if she isn't working) or doing some well paid secret work. Whether that's sex work is anyone's guess. I'd keep well out - what could you possibly achieve?

If she not escorting or dancing etc outside of the home (although this was my first thought due to the high money) it could be something like webcam work.

She could do that at home and do hours around the kids needs and no one would ever know unless you saw her online.

The other thing could be an affair with a rich married man which would explain why she has not mentioned him.

The reality is on benefits she would not be able to have the lifestyle you've described so she must be supplementing her income in some way even if it is through racking up debt.

As for your dilemma well it's really difficult. you want to help your aunt but really it's nothing to do with you (which is why your worried about getting involved)

You could have a casual chat with your cousin saying you don't really want to have to talk to her but her mums worried and you want to make sure she's (cousin) is ok. Then depending on her reaction you'll know if you need to back off or take the next step. If you do make sure she knows whatever it is won't be judged or passed on to other family without her consent.

Thank you all. Your replies have convinced me that I am doing the right thing. I would like to help my Aunty but I honestly don't think I would be helping by getting involved.

Anything I say will probably just make my Cousin more angry with my Aunt (for talking to other people about her) and she might feel she has to distance herself from the family, which wouldn't be good for her DC's.

I'm going to try to put it out of my mind now and stop obsessing over possible explanations for her spending as it's really all just speculation and i'm just making myself anxious. She's an adult and as such is entitled to make her own choices. If she wanted me to know what was going on in her life she would tell me.

Thank you again.

Honestly, I did fine on benefits. I ran a big car, we had nice clothes, nights out and savings. I actually felt I was being given more than enough to 'survive' on and plenty to live quite reasonably on. I started volunteering to alleviate my guilt! I felt guilty because my closest friends (a family) worked and constantly struggled. I lent them money. I couldn't work due to ill health but I could volunteer at that time on a 'when able' basis, at least.

So, not everyone who does OK on benefits is a fraud, dealer or prostitute. I don't know why or how I managed but if I did, I'm certain others do too

Honestly, I did fine on benefits. I ran a big car, we had nice clothes, nights out and savings. I actually felt I was being given more than enough to 'survive' on and plenty to live quite reasonably on. I started volunteering to alleviate my guilt! I felt guilty because my closest friends (a family) worked and constantly struggled. I lent them money. I couldn't work due to ill health but I could volunteer at that time on a 'when able' basis, at least.

So, not everyone who does OK on benefits is a fraud, dealer or prostitute. I don't know why or how I managed but if I did, I'm certain others do too

Oh, I absolutely agree many people do fine on benefits - but there's doing fine and then doing 'very well indeed!'

Maybe she has one of those phone chat line type jobs. i have read they pay well.. Personally i would stay out of it. What would your Aunt do if she found out the truth? Its a tough one but best let sleeping dogs lie. Sounds like she is up to something though!

If your cousin receives maintenance for her children, op, that could bump her income up quite considerably?