Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be worried about a family member but not want to get involved.

55 replies

thatsenoughelsa · 23/01/2015 12:11

Let me preface this by saying that although the dilemma here is (sort of) benefits related, this is absolutely NOT a benefits bashing thread and I don't want this to turn into a debate about benefits as that's really not constructive and would be missing the point of the thread. Will try to keep this brief but don't want to drip feed.

I have a cousin who is in her mid twenties and is a single Mum to 2 lovely, school aged DC's. We were very close growing up but have drifted apart slightly over the years. We still see each other regularly though and I have remained very close to her Mum, my Aunt.

My Cousin is a SAHM. She claims benefits and does not have any additional income that anyone is aware of. Several family members, friends etc have commented that she seems to have a very extravagant lifestyle (nice car, beautiful privately rented flat in a nice part of town, goes out clubbing and for spa days with friends regularly, only wears designer clothes and same for DC's, always has hair/nails done etc) for someone on a small income. I always try to change the subject as I don't like speculating about other people's finances but more and more people have been mentioning it and it's getting to be very awkward.

One of her DC's had a birthday party a few weeks ago. She had hired a very nice venue in town, a professional photographer, there was a children's entertainer and she had a beautiful three tier cake made. There were a lot of whispers of "this must have cost a fortune!" and "how can she afford this?" from the adults and it made me feel very uncomfortable. I don't like gossip and part of me wanted to tell them to mind their own business but at the same time I could see why they were curious as it was very extravagant for a child's party.

My Aunt came round yesterday and was very upset and tearful, which isn't like her at all. My Cousin had apparently told her that she has booked a two week holiday to Greece in a 5* resort for her and DC's. She has already booked to go to Spain for a week on a friends hen do so my Aunty asked her how could she afford it, where she got the money from etc. My Cousin got very upset and angry, told her Mum to stop interfering in her life and stormed out.

My Aunt told me she is worried that my Cousin is either a.) claiming more than she is entitled to and will get into trouble or b.) living on credit and getting into massive amounts of debt or c.) is involved in something illegal but she has no idea what it could be.

I hated seeing my Aunty so upset (she has had a lot of health problems in the last year and doesn't need the stress) and to be honest, I think her concerns are valid. I work with vulnerable families, many of whom claim benefits so I know that the tabloid tales about unemployed people living like Kings in great big Mansions are absolute bollocks. Most of the single Mum's on benefits I work with really struggle to make ends meet and they freuquently go without to make sure their DC are fed and clothed properly. So, yes, of course I can see that my Cousin's lifestyle just doesn't add up.

My Aunty has asked me to talk to my Cousin and try to find out what is going on. She thinks that she "looks up to" me (not sure about that) and is more likely to open up to me than her Mum or Dad who she accuses of interfering.

I feel very torn. I know my Aunt and Uncle are worried sick and I would like to help but on the other hand I'm reluctant to get involved. I loathe confrontation. It's not in my nature to go around asking people about their personal finances, even if we are related and I can't see it ending well. DH says "don't get involved" and that if she is committing benefit fraud/in debt/whatever then it's her own fault if she gets into trouble. It's not that easy though. I've known this girl her whole life, I love her and I feel responsible for her to an extent. Also there are children involved.

Having turned it over and over in my head, my gut feeling is to keep my nose out but I know my Aunt will be disappointed. So, MN jury, what do you think? Am I being unreasonable to deny my Aunt's request and do nothing? Is there anything to be gained from my getting involved?

OP posts:
Roseformeplease · 23/01/2015 12:14

Don't get openly involved but do some quiet sleuthing. My instinct is that she is working at another job, or has a provider (older man?) that she is keeping quiet.

LadyLuck10 · 23/01/2015 12:16

Yanbu, she sounds very dodgy but I would not get involved. If she is doing something wrong she will be caught out. With her very openly flashing her lifestyle someone will bound to report her. I don think any good will come from confronting her.

originalusernamefail · 23/01/2015 12:17

I'm not sure there is anything to say? Maybe you could ask her for tips as she seems to make her money go a long way / is a savvy shopper? Do the kids dad pay his way? Maybe he was behind the party. Are the clothes from charity shops / eBay. Is the spa a groupon deal? Maybe she's been saving for the hol for 10+ years a tiny bit at a time?

It's no use worrying about another adult. What would you response be if your mum questioned how you handled your money?

HowCanIMissYouIfYouWontGoAway · 23/01/2015 12:18

Just suppose your cousin told you and it was either a, b or c. And you told your aunt.

Then what? She's know for sure whether her daughter was a benefit cheat, in huge debt or a criminal. What would she do with that information that would change the situation?

You already know that your cousin is not going to take kindly to you prying, so it's very unlikely she'd tell you and even if she did, what then?

I think better to talk through with your aunt. ok, so what would you do with the information? report her? give her money? try to tell her what to do?

If you even say to your cousin that her mum has been talking to you about her finances and she's worried, that's going to cause her to be even more angry with her mum.

thatsenoughelsa · 23/01/2015 12:24

Original, her DC's Dad is not in the picture and has never provided any financial support. I would love to believe that she is simply a great bargain hunter and has saved up for these holidays but it doesn't seem to be the case. She has always been very scathing of charity shops, second hand etc. and has a holiday abroad every year, runs a carcar, goes on a lot of nights out etc so I just don't see how she could manage to save anything when state benefits are (despite what many believe) really not that generous. Definitely agree she is an adult, perhaps I need to stop thinking of her as the little kid I knew growing up.

OP posts:
thatsenoughelsa · 23/01/2015 12:34

HowCanIMissYou, my Aunty seems to think that if she knew what my Cousin was up to she could talk her out of it but it seems massively unlikely given her reaction when she brought up the subject of money the other day. I suppose she's just desperate and wants to know what's going on with her Daughter, which I can understand. Sadly though, I don't really see what she can do to change anything.

OP posts:
Gen35 · 23/01/2015 12:41

I don't see what can be gained from you trying to find out either, if she is fiddling she'll get caught eventually, people know that. My guess would be an undisclosed bloke, but as he may well not be living with her, there may in fact be no fraud at all. I'd sympathise with the aunt but point out that if she IS doing dodgy stuff she surely does know the risks, and alienating her from all of you is unlikely to help anything.

Gen35 · 23/01/2015 12:42

Can't even see how benefits fraud gives you this kind of lifestyle tbh, the few desperate people I know personally that got caught were still living poorly, not as you describe

MrTumblesBavarianFanbase · 23/01/2015 12:44

I thought she's a rich man's mistress when I read it - that only means I've read too many crappy novels at some point in my misspent youth though :o It's not illegal nor debt so might be a good solution to assume :o

Honestly whatever you think is going on there is no way on earth that challenging her will be a useful thing to do. I guess the best thing you could do if you wanted would be to open lines of communication more and make sure she knows she could talk to you if she needed... Interference won't be welcomed or do anything but make her angry and defensive (whether or not there is a problem) and will just drive her to avoid you all.

Your aunt also needs to accept her dd is an adult and just take the same approach IMO.

HighwayDragon · 23/01/2015 12:48

My thoughts are either credit cards or she is being a 'kept' woman

thatsenoughelsa · 23/01/2015 12:48

Gen35, I know very little about benefit fraud so you may well be right. My Aunt might just have jumped to that conclusion as there has been a lot of stuff in the news about benefit cheats etc. It seems fairly clear to me that she does have an additional income of some sort and that (judging by her secrecy and defensiveness) it's likely to be bad news but I almost don't want to know what it is. That probably sounds very callous of me Blush

OP posts:
Timeforabiscuit · 23/01/2015 12:48

That kind of expenditure would be way more than a single dodgy benefit claim, or even a job on the sly, benefit claim, and a pay day loan put together.

It is either very immoral/illegal earnings or a lottery win IMO.

It is very tricky, especially if you're not close now - is there any way you can frame the conversation that it is absolutely none of your business and that you consider money matters private, but that her mum is getting concerned. If everything is above board than fine and I'm really sorry I asked, but if she ever needed a quiet word to feel free to call her or to just reassure her mum as she is just a mum worried for her daughter (just like she will be in x number of years).

I do not envy the position this puts you in though!

PausingFlatly · 23/01/2015 12:49

I don't think you can ask anything, because as a PP says what would you do with any answer you got? And you think getting one is unlikely.

If you decide to get involved at all, I think the best you can is say to your cousin that you're NOT asking and don't want to know, but that it is very, very obvious to the world and his dog that she has substantially more income than any benefits she could be entitled to.

And that if she's doing anything not above board, she's going to be caught, and very soon. And that you love her and don't want to see this happen to her and her children.

betweenmarchandmay · 23/01/2015 12:50

Escort? At any rate it is her business I'm afraid. Whatever it is, she doesn't want you to know - asking leading questions will just push it underground as it were.

thatsenoughelsa · 23/01/2015 12:52

betweenmarchandmay, that has crossed my mind. Haven't told my Aunt that though as I think her head would explode.

OP posts:
betweenmarchandmay · 23/01/2015 12:53

Well, it is her business if she is. Seems the most likely if she's young and nice looking :)

PotteringAlong · 23/01/2015 12:55

My guess is lottery or hooker!

PausingFlatly · 23/01/2015 12:56

But actually, if she has a rich but casual boyfriend rather than partner, then extravagant occasional gifts are perfectly permissible. It's regular income that's counted (including regular gifts of food, etc).

So she may not be doing anything dodgy at all. Then again, she may.

KneeQuestion · 23/01/2015 12:59

Escort/lapdancer etc was my first thought too.

betweenmarchandmay · 23/01/2015 12:59

Well, it seems unlikely to me it's a rich but casual boyfriend, unless he was buying her expensive gifts she was then selling. The things described in the OP need cash - holidays and parties - and it's not completely unfeasible that he's giving her some sort of monthly allowance or that she's asking for money on an as and when basis but doesn't seem very likely.

The only concern is who looks after the children when she works but if their dad is involved then that's not likely to be a problem, I imagine.

ElsieMc · 23/01/2015 13:08

I also don't think it is benefit cheating. We are talking about a lifestyle completely inconsistent with income and her lifestyle appears to be one of part of a couple on good salaries. Whatever you discover, it is going to be worse than an over-claim on benefits. Her defensive reaction to concern about her income is a red flag.

My own dd was on benefits for a while and she appeared to have more materially than usual on limited income. She had run up catalogue and other debts and was in denial, but this certainly did not extend as far as spa days and holidays - just nice clothes and a pram was enough to cause debt.

Perhaps you could tell her that you are all concerned about her and go from there. The problem is that people are on to her and I think she will be the subject of an investigation regardless of the truth very soon.

PausingFlatly · 23/01/2015 13:10

I agree, between, the expenditure described does make it unlikely.

Then again, if the cousin is not claiming any income-related benefits, the money could perfectly legitimately all be an allowance from rich boyfriend.

Which the parents might not like, but isn't actually their business.

BTW, I have to say, my gut feeling is escort as suggested. But it's not a given.

thatsenoughelsa · 23/01/2015 13:10

If she is working as an escort, lapdancer or whatever then I wouldn't want to judge. My concern would be that she would get into trouble as she is definitely still claiming benefits.

It had occurred to me that she might have a Boyfriend none of us knew about and that he might be providing a certain degree of financial support. Thinking about it now though, she has had a few relationships since splitting from her DC's Dad and they have always been very public. If anything she's the sort of person to post lovey-dovey statuses on FB and invite the new boyfriend to every night out or family occasion. If she is seeing someone (who happens to be loaded) then there has to be a reason why she's keeping it a secret and I can't think of a reason that isn't extremely worrying Sad

The more I think about this the more I realise it's a can of worms I don't want to open.

OP posts:
Gen35 · 23/01/2015 13:23

Yes, if you think you'd know about a legit bf, it does sound likely to be a can of worms. I hope it isn't for all their sakes. Tbh, if it were my dd, I'd tell the auntie to just say to her SS that she had to make sure that whatever she's doing isn't going to cause her to get into a position where her kids are taken away (if she goes to jail etc). The overreaction to the questioning stinks a bit too.

Gen35 · 23/01/2015 13:23

To her dd, not ss! Babybrain

Swipe left for the next trending thread