To think it is time we took diplomatic measures re Saudi (UPSETTING)

[ArsenicFaceCream]

Apologies in advance if there is already a thread somewhere, I'm a bit surprised I can't find one)

I have just read an account of the beheading yesterday in Saudi Arabia.

The executed woman was beheaded with a sword.

She had been convicted of sexually abusing and murdering her stepdaughter (7 yr old).

She was Burmese but an SA resident.

Saudi authorities opted not to use painkillers/anaesthetic for this beheading, although it is sometimes used.

It took three strokes of the sword to accomplish the task as four policemen held her down.

She struggled and repeatedly screamed "I did not kill" until the end.

WHY are we dealing with these people?

Because we would rather have cheap oil than principles.

Or a world that is still inhabitable by the time our grandchildren are grown up.

Or just about anything else.

Hadn't you noticed?

Well quite, but enough is bloody well enough.

I hope we're not going to march into any more countries now and tell them how to 'do democracy'

What diplomatic measures are you thinking of?

Well, Biden actually apologised to Saudi Arabia for suggesting that their financing terrorism was a problem...

Do not underestimate our tolerance for being hypocritical when maintaining our overconsumption of the world's resources is at stake.

Well what's the normal heirarchy of escalation?

You start with sending the ambassador to express grave concerns and work your way up to a complete cessation of diplomatic relations, don't you?

What have we done exactly?

The Saudis quite like British markets and London pleasures too. It isn't one way traffic.

While our biggest ally is America, with it's human rights record and execution record, I don't think we have a leg to stand on re Saudi.

I know it doesn't feel like it, Liara, but Biden isn't actually one of ours (Or should that be the other way around?)

We are well on our way to having no international role other than being a whore of expediency.

This seems like a good moment to stop the rot (to me).

My fear with the case is that an innocent person has been executed.

Did the woman have a fair trial? If she really has sexually abused and murdered a seven year old step daughter then frankly I don't have a lot of sympathy. I am sure that this woman's last minutes were not as bad as the poor seven year old.

Whoever sexually abused and murdered the poor seven year old didn't think about pain relief for the victim. People who rape and murder seven year olds don't deserve to live. However I would not protest wildly if murderous child sex offenders like Roy Whiting (who murdered Sara Payne) or the man who murdered that little girl in wales were beheaded without "pain relief".

I am more concerned for people who are executed for "crimes" like apostasy or women who are murdered executed for having sex outside marriage. I am more concerned with countries where girls who attend school are murdered.

There is a problem for the west in that if you don't have Saudi you have something worse. Simplifying things Syria was a Saudi, now its IS.

Do you think the justice system in Saudi is fair to women?

Oh, you mean he doesn't run the UK's foreign policy?

Could have fooled me....

Oh, no, right, that was the CIA, not Biden. Silly me.

Really Tired
the woman was Burmese so it will not be surprising if she was framed and accused and didnt have a fair trial.:-(
Usually the Burmese pay for the crimes that SA commit.

My fear with the case is that an innocent person has been executed.

That's alwaysone of the fears/risks with any capital punishment.

But the judicial system in SA doesn't reach the standards to be recognised internationally. There are NO fair trials there.

No juries. Sharia based system. Deep xenophobia and misogyny.

Adultery, homosexuality, apostasy and a host of other 'crimes' punishable by death...

Brutal, medieval modes of punishment and execution...

Are you really saying there is no problem as long as she was guilty?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_system_of_Saudi_Arabia#Criminal_law

www.amnesty.org/en/region/saudi-arabia?page=2

Oh, no, right, that was the CIA, not Biden. Silly me.

How did we get in this morally bankrupt mess?

Wow. I know that Saudi isn't exactly renowned for its record on human rights (understatement of the year), however I did not realise that they used such barbaric forms of capital punishment.

Like others have already said I'm concerned that the woman didn't actually commit the crime in the first place.

It's awful really that we are all so sickened by what's going on in Iraq and Syria at the hands of ISIS when our allies are doing much the same.

I don't like this world very much at the moment.

There is a problem for the west in that if you don't have Saudi you have something worse. Simplifying things Syria was a Saudi, now its IS

The realpolitik of it is tricky, but it is not as if they will fail as a state is it? The US won't make a stand. So we could try to nudge.

Just standing by...

I expect that if she hadn't have murdered the step daughter, she'd have been put to death as well

Like others have already said I'm concerned that the woman didn't actually commit the crime in the first place.

Me too and the fact that she was Burmese did leap out as an added risk factor for wrongful conviction.

YANBU OP.

Sorry but the Saudi 'justice' system absolutely stinks. Yes I'm sure that woman got a fair trial and all the evidence was carefully reviewed by women hating men.

It keeps popping up on my FB about a man who has been sentenced to 100 lashes for something (sorry I can't remember what it is, sure it is something to do with speech/print) and he has some, then is allowed to heal then has some more. It is utterly barbaric.

Of course men found guilty of the same, actually worse - torture, rape and murder get away with far far less

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/saudi-royal-family-intervenes-over-preacher-released-despite-raping-and-killing-daughter-8491812.html

The courts initially only sentenced him to 4 months and blood money. Only after international pressure was the sentence increased.

++ Warning very graphic & upsetting details in the second link ++

themuslimissue.wordpress.com/2013/10/08/after-intl-pressures-saudi-fayhan-al-gamdi-gets-8-years-800-lashes-for-torturing-daughter-to-death/comment-page-1/

While our biggest ally is America, with it's human rights record and execution record, I don't think we have a leg to stand on re Saudi.

are you comparing america's death penalty to saudi arabia's? seriously?

in america there are a handful of crimes that get the death penalty. I am very anti death penalty, but america at least applies for heinous crimes.

in SA you can get the death penalty for sorcery or apostasy. those two countries aren't in the same league re death penalty. and america doesn't just lop people's heads off in a square.

He was a blogger Crap. I think he's on the amnesty link too.

Keep out of it, there is fuck all we can do, each country to their own. Depressing stuff though.

Mistressmia - that article words fail me.

I don't see what can really be done. The middle east is so volatile that we can't do anything here, I fear.