To think it is time we took diplomatic measures re Saudi (UPSETTING)

[ArsenicFaceCream]

Apologies in advance if there is already a thread somewhere, I'm a bit surprised I can't find one)

I have just read an account of the beheading yesterday in Saudi Arabia.

The executed woman was beheaded with a sword.

She had been convicted of sexually abusing and murdering her stepdaughter (7 yr old).

She was Burmese but an SA resident.

Saudi authorities opted not to use painkillers/anaesthetic for this beheading, although it is sometimes used.

It took three strokes of the sword to accomplish the task as four policemen held her down.

She struggled and repeatedly screamed "I did not kill" until the end.

WHY are we dealing with these people?

that being said, I agree about SA. something has to be done. that country is literally in the 12th century. but I don't think war is the answer. young people are finding out about what life is like outside SA, and that movies and music are pretty fun. the young are bored out of their minds (apparently, football matches, beheadings and shopping are the only forms of entertainment there). hopefully, they will pressure society to change.

We like cheap oil. We also like flogging arms to them. Cameron is very good at ignoring human rights issues, anyway.

but I don't think war is the answer.

No I wasn't suggesting war

Should we intervene militarily? Of course not. Innocent people would suffer and it would make a further mess of the middle east.
Should we keep being their bestest buddies and sell arms to them and invite their ambassador to pro freedom of speech marches in Paris?
Fuck no. That stinks.
They are also sponsors of extremism and terrorism.

Saudi is one of the largest oil producers in the world. There is nothing more to be said.

At any moment in time there are 5 - 6 super tankers full of Saudi crude oil stationed off the USA just in case there should be a supply disruption. There is a long chain of supertankers sailing towards the USA behind them.

The USA depends on Saudi for oil security and the Saudi regime depends on the USA for military protection.

The USA will never sanction Saudi.

Keep out of it, there is fuck all we can do, each country to their own. Depressing stuff though

Should we have said that about apartheid ?

International pressure and highlighting abuse can work. Raif Badawi has just had his case referred back to the Supreme Court after the intervention of the Saudi King, who no doubt is highly embarrassed about all the protest and criticism that has been going on around the world. Its a start although by no means is a positive outcome guaranteed.

Far far more spotlight needs to be shone on these evil regimes.

The USA is no longer dependent on Saudi for oil due to fracking.
www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/fracking-is-turning-the-us-into-a-bigger-oil-producer-than-saudi-arabia-9185133.html

The largest markets for Saudi oil now are China & India

I think we need to develop alternative energy sources and just put the buggers out of business so to speak.

Can someone provide me with any evidence that the Saudi legal system is any more corrupt or biased than the us one is?

I'm genuinely interested btw, I don't know. I don't think it is, and I am very sure they have been executing innocent people over there as well.

Along with mentally ill, those with learning difficulties, black...etc...

So while I steadfastly condemn many of the Saudi actions, I don't think we are in any place to criticise until our so called friends get their house in order, or we distance ourself from them.

Now THAT would be a major move.

You could write to Philip Hammond at the Foreign Office about this case and ask if anything can be done about human rights there in general.

Far far more spotlight needs to be shone on these evil regimes.

Yes and we really need to pressure our own government to exert diplomatic pressure too.

I accept that the best we can hope for in the short term is a tempering of the excesses, but that is worthwhile in itself.

RJ the wikipedia article I linked above is a good overview and the amnesty link to the SA pages is full of briefings.

Isn't it's the case that black felons are far more likely to be executed in US than white ones?

MistressMia - now the Saudis have collapsed the oil price the US fracking industry is shutting down rapidly as is the North Sea.

The 50% price drop created by Saudi in the last 6 months is designed to make the West dependent on Saudi oil again.

The USA and Saudi engineered the price drop to undermine Russia and pave the way for an invasion of Syria. The US troops leaving Afghanistan left their equipment in Kuwait/Iraq.

Do you also think we should take 'diomatic' measures against the US with its illegal imprisonement of various people in Guantanomo Bay? Or what about the illegal war in Iraq?

Nah didn't think so.

You do realise there's an amnesty page on th USA that's just as damning don't you?

Yes they are Trojan.

There was a not too distant past us legal case where a woman, with her friend present, tried to flee her abusive husband with her three year old child.

The man grabbed the child from her arms, locked her out of Thr house and murdered the boy as Thr two women hammered on Thr door.

Her sentence was more severe than his.

But yknow they are our friends so...

Sorry by severe, I mean I think she was sentenced to around 30 years. I can't find the story as I can't remember the name.

just as damning don't you?

No. Not 'just a damning'.

Damning, but not in the same league. At all.

The US have juries, due process, a constitution, extensive appeal rights, a ban on 'cruel and unusual' punishment etc etc.

A long way from perfect but SA is several grades more horrific.

Found it. She got 45 years and she isn't alone.

www.buzzfeed.com/alexcampbell/how-the-law-turns-battered-women-into-criminals#.wjRkaeK5y

Her sentence was more severe than his.

Her sentence for what? Fleeing?

I'm well aware of the flaws in the US system but your argument doesn't make sense.

A bad thing is happening in one place, so we must let the even worse thing somewhere else continue without a murmur?

Do you also think we should take 'diomatic' measures against the US with its illegal imprisonement of various people in Guantanomo Bay?

Yes. Long overdue and surely not that difficult now Obama has broken his own pledge in that regard.

It's diplomacy I'm suggesting. Nagging, essentially. These things have been done despite conflicting interests. That's why it's called diplomacy. Doh.

That's not what I said at all.

I said lets get our own house in order first.

Her sentence was for failing to protect the child btw.

And yes of course the us has due process - due process which is far more likely to find you guilty if you are black, poor or mentally I'll. A veneer of respectability does not mean cruel and unusual doesn't happen. And then none of that applies if you are in several categories of prisoner - Guantanamo being another sad indictment.

Absolutely let's see action against Saudi. Lets also see it happen against the USA. Except it won't because they are our mates - and of course we aren't so guilt free ourselves (illegal wars, implication in dodgy arms deals, use of illegal interrogation rumoured etc etc)

So no I wouldn't support diplomatic action against saudi at this point because I believe it should start against the one country with an appalling human rights record who may actually take cognisance of what we say - except we won't say it.

And let's not even start thinking about china.

I said lets get our own house in order first.

The US isn't 'our house' though. It is a foreign country just like SA is. As 'friends' we can comment.

And let's not even start thinking about china.

Yes. Dreadful.

We don't comment though. Not officially; we support them and refuse to comment.

And yet I think that is where we might actually be heard -a little.

2013 Stats:

Saudi: 82 executed - population ~29 million

USA: 39 executed - population ~ 320 million

www.amnesty.org.uk/death-penalty-2013-report-use-statistics-executions#.VLryxkvSzVs

Can all those calling the US just as bad really say hand on heart that they would not be more frightened of facing Saudi justice versus the US ?