AIBU to challenge detention?

[abraham]

Just looking for some opinions/advice please . . .

DS1 started secondary school last Sept, so the whole secondary school thing is still really new to me!

He has been doing really well in all his subjects, bar one - German. Yesterday he received an after school detention for failing his German test (detention is scheduled for this coming Tuesday). If he had been given a detention for not completing homework, misbehaving etc. I would support the school 100% (he received a lunchtime detention for not completing RE HWK in his second week at the school, and there was a good reason for it too (he'd been in hospital having an operation!) - but I still supported the school). However, a detention as punishment for failing a test just seems unfair - and counter productive anyway.

He does go to what is generally regarded as being a very strict school, so I suppose what I'm asking is if this is normal practice across the board - or not? I might have a philosophical problem with it, but if it's a widespread way of dealing with failure then there's little point in me challenging it is there?

Just to complicate things further - he comes top (or very near the top) of the class for most subjects. Languages aren't his strongest suit, but he is still near the top of the class in his other language choice (Spanish) - he says he finds it hard to understand the German teacher's accent, and she conducts most of the lesson in German. Clearly she's going for an immersion approach, but surely then she should expect that this approach would take longer to take effect anyway? Going to sound really gorilla mum here, but I have to question if the problem here is not DS1 at all - but actually the teacher?!?

Any thoughts on this would be most appreciated!

I don't see why it is ridiculous, if a child has not done their homework they deserve a detention, which is often used to do the homework. If they fail a test they have not revised, so they have not done their homework and deserve a detention, Again for me a fail would be not coming within a defined region their target. So an A* student should get 90%, if they get 70% or less they get a detention which is used to go over material and resit the test.

I would email the teacher and clarify. I agree that detention for failing a test (while still having revised for it, done all the homework, and so on) is a bit odd. I also think it's highly likely to be what an 11 year old says to put themself in the best possible light.

DS's school always emails home with the date and reasons for detention.

I would speak to the school as I'd assume the child had picked up the reason for the detention wrong. Giving detentions for failing tests is ridiculous. Fair enough give detentions if they were messing around in the test or failed to complete work, but for not being good at something?

If that had happened in my school I'd probably still be completing the detentions I'd have got in my worst subjects. Some people are simply not good at some subjects.

Some people are simply not good at some subjects

True overall, but most average students aren't sufficiently poor at any subject for that to be an adequate reason no to reach the fairly basic standard set this early in the first year of secondary school.

Passing at that level is not an ambitious target.

I'm a German teacher. In fact, I may even be this one.
I set learning homework, there is a test, with a pass mark. The test is differentiated by outcome, but everyone knows what they have to get to pass.
If they get below the pass mark they have to do the test again, and I expect an improvement. If they need a bit more help they get that before the test.
This is because all MFL GCSEs are a 5 year course and everything we do is in the GCSE. Not all kids take GCSE of course, but their end of KS3 levels have to be sent to the DFE. Before you even mention OFSTED.
If I didn't retest I'd not be doing my job properly.

Some people are simply not good at some subjects

I agree which is why students are judged in line with their targets. If they have a target of a D they need to score 50% in a test, they get a detention of that score 30%. A B grade student needs to score 70%, if they get 50% they get a detention.

As a parent I would be concerned if my child was underachieving and not bring held to account.

Giving sanctions for struggling academically could be sucked up by resilient children but some will be ripped to shreds and perform even worse the next time.

Sanctions need to have a point. Unless the detention time will be spent doing the work again with the support of the teacher it is pointless and a lazy way to manage the situation.

More and more schools seem to be doling out detentions rather than checking whether a child needs support of some sort.

I suspect the days of spending detentions writing out lines or other menial tasks are long gone. Most subject detentions IME are used to help a student catch up.

Is the 'detention' simply another way of requiring him to revise his German, under a teacher's supervision?

At my kids' school, when students need extra help, they attend an after school session that is not called a detention. During the session, a teacher will be on hand to explain and help them understand any areas they may be struggling with.

If you fail a test, you are struggling with something. Teaching staff should be asking questions first and only punishing when they know it is appropriate.

Giving a child detention for not completing homework when they've been in hospital is absolutely ridiculous.

This one is ... don't know really. If a child hasn't bothered to prepare then a detention could give them a kick up the bum.

Mind you I only set detentions for downright bad behaviour - not homework/poor work.

Why is it always the German teachers that seem to be unreasonable?

Just book a slot with him on Parents Evening and sit their stifling your laughter. That seems to be the way to deal with these things from what I've read. Oh, and refer to them as an idiot in front of your child, nearly forgot that.

On a more serious note - agree check that DC has given you the correct reason for their detention. I think detention for failing a test is a bit harsh and would probably ask the teacher what is their reasoning for it (giving them extra 1:1 help with the test questions during the detention?)

JihadLewis is that really a wise choice of NN? Possibly a SOH failure on my part but it doesn't seem witty or clever to me. Apols for hijack.

As Mamaluah says, Being treated unfairly by the person who is in charge is often what happens when you are an employee. Keeping your mouth shut and getting on with it so you have a job to pay the mortgage and put food in everyone's mouth is often what you have to do.
It's not great but better he learns this now than at his first day in a much wanted job he's trained and longed for.

OhShittingHenry

It was an autocorrect fail on a previous thread when the poster had typed John Lewis.

As Mamaluah says, Being treated unfairly by the person who is in charge is often what happens when you are an employee. Keeping your mouth shut and getting on with it so you have a job to pay the mortgage and put food in everyone's mouth is often what you have to do.
It's not great but better he learns this now than at his first day in a much wanted job he's trained and longed for.

This also teaches people to be the unreasonable/lazy boss who doles out sanctions without investigating the cause of the problem. Do we really want more of them?

It's from another thread with regards to my username.

Tbh neither does your username to me but presumably you didn't choose it for my appreciation

"If the teacher is speaking to the students in German, then she is excellent btw."

Not necessarily. You could get any old native speaker of German in to speak to the students in German and that wouldn't make them "excellent". They need to be a good teacher as well.

(Personal experience: did German to O-level. The first year we had a non-native speaker who had us pretty much on track (she was lovely and the class would have done anything for her). Then she left and for three years we had a native German speaker who probably had many sterling qualities but could not teach for toffee. In the final year the school belatedly realised that the entire German class was on track to fail German O-level and brought in a different teacher (also a native speaker) to drag us up to the mark. It was a heck of a lot of work for all of us (and for her, I have no doubt) but she managed it. It wasn't the language these teachers spoke to us in that made them excellent (or, indeed, very far from excellent)).

OP's DS's teacher may very well be excellent, but you can't make that determination based just on the information given.

If he comes top or near the top in most subjects then a fail is a massive underachievement really. It kind of says that he's decided not to bother with that subject already - in year 7. I would check with the teacher that they knew the test was coming up and whether revision had been set for HW.

A detention is just a kick up the bum to say if you have a test revise for it. Though it would make sense if the detention was spent correcting mistakes.

If he comes top or near the top in most subjects then a fail is a massive underachievement really. It kind of says that he's decided not to bother with that subject already - in year 7. I would check with the teacher that they knew the test was coming up and whether revision had been set for HW.

A detention is just a kick up the bum to say if you have a test revise for it. Though it would make sense if the detention was spent correcting mistakes.

It kind of says that he's decided not to bother with that subject already

It could say that or it could say he has totally lost confidence in his abilities, in which case a detention is going to make things worse, not better.