To think that talking about punching people is outwith the Pope's remit?

[ArsenicFaceCream]

I initially thought I'd dreamt this one.

I suppose it means we can mark the Vatican down as not with the staunch pro-free speech lobby, which in itself is a return to something more familiar. But still...

It's only if you insult his Mum .

I though he was supposed to turn the other cheek if I insulted his mum?

Maybe the two face and bum cheeks were sore from all the turning and he had enough? He is human after all not perfect like Jesus.

I don't think anyone actually dissed his mum though, Joan.

It was an analogy. For satire and terrorism.

The Archbishop of terrorism will be commentating on cyber espoinage with a 'who smelt it, dealt it' speech next

^espionage

"Archbishop of terrorism"???

Archbishop of Canterbury

It was an analogy. It was also translated badly. The pope is not about to run around hitting people lol

Who ever said the rhyme comitted the crime.

Perhaps not Meirasa but he does appear to be saying that a violent response to verbal or written criticism of or insult to religion is 'normal' (understandable?) and he is speaking in the context of the Parisian atrocities.

In all seriousness, it is a disturbing message from a Christian leader.

From the Guardian's account;

Asked about the attack that killed 12 people at the offices of Charlie Hebdo – targeted because it had printed depictions of the prophet Muhammad – he said: “One cannot provoke, one cannot insult other people’s faith, one cannot make fun of faith.

“There is a limit. Every religion has its dignity … in freedom of expression there are limits.”

He gestured to Alberto Gasparri, who organises papal trips and was standing by his side, and added: “If my good friend Dr Gasparri says a curse word against my mother, he can expect a punch. It’s normal. It’s normal. You cannot provoke. You cannot insult the faith of others. You cannot make fun of the faith of others.”

www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jan/15/pope-francis-limits-to-freedom-of-expression

I'm looking for other translations, to see if they differ (assuming he wasn't speaking in English originally?)

Sticks and stones, Joan

I think what he said is ridiculous. Of course people are going to make jokes about religion and it is not the same as insulting someone's mother or taking the piss out of the elderly/ disabled.

Religion is a choice, we make that choice ourselves and it is just an organisation and a belief, we choose to follow it or not and the point of this is that it is supposed to help you become a better person.

I am buddhist, I absolutely love my religion and it has helped me through some of the most difficult times. Buddhist jokes are rife though, they're everywhere and to be quite honest, I usually see them within buddhist communities as they know how to laugh at themselves, it's fine, it's funny, it's a joke.

If your religion makes you that passionate that you want to kill someone for joking about your choice then you are not becoming a better person through it and it's pretty pointless in my opinion.

Most people within any religion can and do laugh at satire. People don't deserve to die for a joke.

To be honest as well, no one deserves to die for jokes about the disabled either, even though this is horrific and a lot worse. If you kill people then you are bad and not really doing your religion any justice. That goes to all religions, and all wars.

Arsenci - you've given me proper giggles this morning with 'Archbishop of terrorism'

ohfuckssake Arsenic

Shhhh Kitten, I'm hoping Lambeth Palace won't notice

I thought it showed the Pope as a human being rather than 'just' a religious leader, which was rather refreshing.

He didn't say he'd shoot anyone - just that he'd thump them - proportionate response?

I thought it was simultaneously hilarious, baffling and horrifying. I mean, did he think before he opened his mouth? Is it really a good idea for the great spiritual leader to say that a punch is a normal response to someone being rude about your mother? It is, after all, precisely the opposite of the Christian message about turning the other cheek.

As for "You cannot provoke. You cannot insult the faith of others. You cannot make fun of the faith of others" - well, that is a perverse take-home message from the Charlie Hebdo massacre. Most people's conclusion was the exact opposite. Making fun of people's faith is the one thing you should be able to do with impunity.

If your religion makes you that passionate that you want to kill someone for joking about your choice then you are not becoming a better person through it and it's pretty pointless in my opinion.

Quite hurricane.

And one would imagine he had thought these big thoughts about the purpose of religion. And his purpose as Pope.

So what was going through his head?

It's almost as though he was preoccupied with some recent insult to Catholicism and decided to make common cause.... with terrorists.

Then you have the cartoonish 'I'd punch my aide if he cursed my mum' aspect.

So bizarre.

The more coffee I drink, the worse it seems and it seemed quite disturbing when I was half asleep.

I thought it was simultaneously hilarious, baffling and horrifying

Yes, this. Exactly this.

I thought it showed the Pope as a human being rather than 'just' a religious leader, which was rather refreshing.

Maybe aj, if he had picked another subject in another context.

I guess I'm not a deep thinker. I just laughed when he said that.

For goodness sake...

Yes Christians are asked to turn t he other cheek. However even in NT teachings- the cleansing of the Temple Jesus showed that sometimes being angry or standing up for things was important. In fact it was when his 'fathers house' was being desecrated and its meaning insulted. This story is used to show that Jesus while a pacifist was probably a partial pacifist. We as Christians are not asked to be doormats and allow others to be bullied and treated unjustly... That's not what its all about and its an overly simplistic view of religion to think it is.

People just want to jump on the band wagon and judge the pope for an analogy that has been badly translated. What annoys me is that people are immediately forgetting how amazingly forward, inclusive and impressive he has been. Ohhhhhh yesss we have a stick to beat him with at last. I just wish they found a properly translated stick.

Yes Christians are asked to turn t he other cheek. However even in NT teachings- the cleansing of the Temple Jesus showed that sometimes being angry or standing up for things was important.

Not with Kalashnikovs.

Not by killing critics and mockers.

Christ never employed violence against people. Not in the temple. Not anywhere.

The Pope was asked aboout the Charlie Hebdo Killings yesterday. THAT is what he was responding to.

What annoys me is that people are immediately forgetting how amazingly forward, inclusive and impressive he has been.

Not me.

His incredible record to date is what makes this more astonishing.

The disjointed nature of this leads me to suspect the message lost something in translation.

I took it as him saying that our actions do have reactions. So if someone insults our mother's the reaction may be a punch (the expression on his face when he says this suggests this was a jokey analogy).

He is quite clear that violent reactions such as those in Paris are wrong.

I think when he talks about not insulting religion he is trying to say that if we attack people's deeply held beliefs then we cannot expect that they will not feel hurt and wish to respond and defend their viewpoint.

I think that his message is that there are many religious people who feel hurt by what they feel to be attacks on their religion which feels personal to them but whilst it is wrong to respond with violence it cannot be expected that there will not be a reaction or attempt to defend themselves.

I think he is asking all to show consideration in how we interact with each other. I've been thinking about this a lot and wonder if his key message is contained around the word dignity that he uses. So to attack someone wholly to undermine their human dignity is different to making a valid point about the effect their behaviour is having upon others. I see this as if we ridicule someone because they follow a particular religion that is very different to ridiculing the way that religion impacts upon the world and is seen to cause harm.

I also thought it was quite brave of the Pope to remind people that Christians / Catholics have had religious wars. I don't think he was advocating any more! I think he was reminding people that the Catholic Church has a difficult history with how to respond to those who it sees as disagreeing or undermining it and perhaps a reminder that all humans, of all faiths and none, have a lot to learn about tolerance.

I watched this several times as the first time I could not make head nor tail of it and wish I could understand the language as I think it is always difficult in translation. Obviously this is just my personal take on it and attempt to understand it.

Arsenic you had me at Archbishop of Terrorism

On my god 'the archbishop of terrorism' has to be the most unfortunate/ironic and best typo ever!

Could he be referring to The Holy Mother? Not his own actual biological mum?