To be worried about the Ched Evans threads on here

[corkysgran]

Sorry but this does seem like a witchunt to me. Many of the posters (who have signed the petition) obviously have little knowledge of the case. At one point a poster said Sports Direct would withdraw sponsorship if Evans was NOT signed and immediately others were vowing to boycott. Laughable and shows the level of thought before clicking. Online justice and the court of public opinion, not for me. As for expecting football, an industry corrupt from the very top (Sepp Blatter) and inherently sexist, to show any moral stance, get real.

I have no issue with Ched Evans seeking employment as a footballer. He is entitled to do it. I'm not sure why he'd want to because of the abuse he will get from the terraces for the rest of his career. Judging by the way he has conducted himself since his release he is either really stupid or is being badly advised. He has no shame.

People's ire should be directed at the clubs who are even considering signing him. Even if the directors of these clubs secretly buy his ' It wasn't rape' bollocks the fact is his self confessed behaviour was entirely reprehensible and no sensible company should want their reputation tarnished by association with him. Especially after the way he and his supporters have conducted themselves since his release. If it's a company that deals with families like football does then having an unrepentant convicted rapist being part of your public face beggars belief.

A jury found him guilty and the fact the other person was acquitted satisfies me that the jury considered everything thoroughly. Frankly, from talking to friends and family, I am pleased to see how many men are outraged by Evans' behaviour. It makes me feel we are moving forward as a society.
What really concerns me is how the poor victim is doing. Apparently she has had to change her identity more than once and was unable to spend Christmas with her family. She has suffered online abuse too. If Evans apologised in public and called on his supporters to leave her in peace, I wouldn't oppose him returning to football.

Only thank you for onterpreting Slugs post however I was replying to what she actually wrote which did refer to this specific case. Just heard OA are not going ahead with the signing because of threats made to their staff. Is that acceptable?

Thanks Only Lovers. you understood perfectly what I meant.

This is, in many ways, quite a cathartic moment for many women. The chance to stand publicly and say this is not OK. That men should face the consequences of their actions.

No that is not a good reason. No one should be subject to that. They have made the right decision but it should not have been because of threats made to staff and families at the club

Thank you blistory that was really helpful.

I guess the 'problem' comes from the fact that whether CE had 'reasonable belief' in her consent is essentially a subjective question rather than something that can be proven or not. Some people (not me!) might say despite her condition and the rather despicable way he came to be in that situation, when asked if he could join in, she said 'yes' and according to his evidence said and did other things to imply consent, and that that would give him the very small amount of'reasonable belief' needed. If some of 'those people' had been on the jury, the verdict may have been different.

This particular jury decided (rightly IMO) that he should be convicted and that CM should be acquitted. That is the nature of our justice system and rightly so. But I think what some people are, I don't know, uncomfortable about, is that a different jury on a different day could have come out with a totally different verdict, and that some of it rested on luck of the opinions of that particular jury? That some people feel that it cannot be 'proven' that he didnt have reasonable belief?

I'm just thinking about the conversations in real life I have had about this and what people said.

No one I have encountered on MN who opposed the signing would think that such threats were acceptable afaik

Who has threatened Oldham athletic staff and by what means? Is it on Twitter?

corkys, 'I was replying to what she actually wrote'. So was I and according to slug herself I understood what she meant; which she then said again to you, in slightly different terms, which I hope you found it possible to understand.

As for the reported threats to Oldham staff, if that is true then obviously no, it's not acceptable. I condemn that in very strong terms.

I suspect though that pressure from sponsors and some Oldham executives and other staff has played the majority part in them making this decision. The fact that discussions have dragged on for so long suggests internal conflict.

In all fairness the conviction Is being appealed. It isn't being appealed. Twice the appeal has been refused, and now they are trying to get an appeal again. So no, not appeal yet.

Either way, he served the sentence handed out by the court. NO he hasn't. He is still on license, so is still serving his sentence.

How do you define witch hunt? I wonder if what his victim has been through at the hands of HIS family & friends would constitute a witch hunt? Having to change her identity several times, because they outed her on twitter, having to move away from family to protect her new identity.

Even if you do think he is innocent, should he not have asked his friends/family to stop their harassment of her by now? By allowing it to continue, it means he condones it. That alone makes him a wanker, imo.

Is this the make up any old bollocks you like about it thread? No.... it's the "we know all about the fact of the case, you don't" thread. You know, the one where only the op knows ALL the facts! MNers can't be THAT smart, can they!

His reputation has been destroyed and his career pretty much has been too Awww, poor Ched!

Perhaps he should have thought about his career before he raped a woman.
Perhaps he should have thought about his career before he continued to allow his victim to be harassed by his family & girlfriend.
Perhaps he should have thought about his victim's reputation, about her having to change her identity on numerous occasions, about her having to leave her family & friends in order to maintain her latest identity

Rape is unforgivable but so is a false allergation. There as no false allegation. The victim didn't report the rape, the police pieced together what happened to her & CE's own words convicted him of rape.

The victim went to the police because she lost her belongings. But don't let the facts get in the way!

Anyone who threatens rape or any other violent attack is wrong, very wrong, and should be prosecuted to he full extent of the law. Threatening to rape a woman is abhorrent. I note that, apart from these alleged threats, the only people so far to threaten rape have been supporters of the Rapist Ched Evans.

I don't believe for one minute that Oldham have dropped this deal because of any threats. I believe that it is solely based on the financial losses anticipated by sponsors saying they will withdraw if the deal went through.

From the BBC

Oldham Athletic have decided against signing convicted rapist Ched Evans following threats to the club's "staff and their families".

Really? What kind of threats? Do they have evidence for this? Have they been to the police?

this kind of sounds like bullshit but I am happy to wait to be corrected

Threats to the families of staff?
I don't believe it, proof please!

will it's like any crime where the mens rea (mental element of the crime) is involved.

The defendant says I believed x or I intended y.

But the jury have to ask themselevs if that's true.

Take theft. A thief has to intend to permenantly deprive the victim of the object. But if someone says they took a bike a year ago but kept meaning to take it back, in fact had every intention of taking it back, does that mean they didn't steal it?

A jury are entitled to find that the thief had no real intention to take it back.

In the case of CE, the jury were perfectly entitled to find that he could not reasonably have believed he had consent.

Looking at the facts of the case, I can't see how any other decision could have been reached.

Threats of rape are not acceptable.

It's probably just some radfems threatening OA staff's families with rape, you know what they're like

That job offer from FIL is probably looking more appealing to CE now.

I hide every thread that bears that rapist's name - simply because just seeing his name in print make my blood boil.

OP YABU

Oldham have withdrawn their offer to sign him.

from BBC
"A board member told BBC sports editor Dan Roan the decision was also taken because of "enormous pressure from sponsors"."

Just heard OA are not going ahead with the signing because of threats made to their staff. Is that acceptable?

Why on earth would you think that anyone on here would think that acceptable ? I simply signed a petition. I'd quite happily sign a petition demanding that those who made such threats are prosecuted regardless of their views on CE.

Thugs are thugs. End of.

It's probably just some radfems threatening OA staff's families with rape, you know what they're like hmm

Only if they found out that someone on the staff was Trans

yabu he hasn't even served his time

why can't he just fuck off and get a new job

nasty rapist bastard

Thanks thewordfactory for the theft analogy, that's helpful as well

Yes, I bet the people who made threats are the same 'feminists' who according to Karl Massey wished rape upon Natasha (because despite apparently being a self made millionaire, he is not quite bright enough to understand that someone who wished another woman to be raped cannot by definition be a 'feminist').