To be horrified by the idea of 'nurserycams'

[Splinters]

Apparently a friend's dtds are starting at a nursery where parents can log in and watch their children on a webcam. I'd never heard of this as our nursery doesn't have it, and I'm horrified! Totally different to an 'open door' policy imo, because a) once the footage exists you have no control over these images of your child, and b) other parents could give their login details to anyone, so anyone could be watching without the knowledge of the nursery staff.

Obviously this isn't an issue for us at the moment, but I can't stop thinking about it now! Can you refuse permission for your child to be in view of a webcam, or does accepting a place at a nursery with cameras mean that you have to accept them? Because there's no way I would if we ever had to move.

There are lots of good child protection issues restricting access to footage of children well beyond paedophiles, eg for looked after children

Again, the same applies to CCTV footage taken in shops, hospitals, car parks, etc.

I completely trust the staff at DS's nursery. It's not about checking up on them, it's about being able to share an important part of his life. But I understand that staff might not want it. I would hate it if I worked there.

It would have to have a proper security system if parents are being given individual logins so the worry about the default password thing is probably unfounded.

On the subject of parents seeing the kids the same parents can come to the nursery and see them with their own eyes. So the whole "looked after children" thing doesn't really apply.

As already said they are all on lots of CCTV systems owned and accessed by all sorts of people, but no one worries about that.

There's a real concern that you'd spend too much time watching and worrying so that's a downside.

There's the possibility that some parents will be calling up every 5 minutes to say "my DD looks unhappy!", "that other kid just took her cuddly toy!"

I wouldn't be too happy working there because I'd feel like someone was staring at me and waiting for me to make the smallest mistake.

OTOH the kids would be safer wouldn't they from the few (but real) staff that harm kids or the somewhat larger number who might just neglect them.

The idea that you shouldn't send them there if you don't trust them is unfortunately unrealistic. You don't really get a free choice and bad people don't wear badges.

The idea that you shouldn't send them there if you don't trust them is unfortunately unrealistic. You don't really get a free choice and bad people don't wear badges.

I agree. There are all sorts of checks in place to make sure that children are safe. This is just one more.

However, I don't think children would be any safer from serious abuse. Vanessa George abused children while changing their nappies. This wouldn't have been prevented by a nursery cam but it also wouldn't have been prevented by the 'no mobile phones' rule that's been brought into all early years settings as a result of that case.

What a nursery cam might do is prevent the situations I have seen where children have been distressed for the whole time they are there and parents are told they only cried when they saw Mummy's car pull up or the practitioners who shout at children or stand around drinking coffee and not interacting with them. The act put on when parents arrived would have to be sustained all day which would be no bad thing.

I've seen poor practice covered up by staff being lovely and smiley when parents are around too much to accept the view that you should trust your childcarers implicitly no matter what. Yes, you should feel comfortable and have no reason to mistrust them but them knowing you can check on their child for a few minutes at any random time of the day may make the difference between an OK day and a good day for your child.

Someone said something about a time limit for logging on. Maybe that would be best. I think I could get obsessed with checking and really it's just as effective if the staff don't know who and when people are watching.

I'm past the nursery years. But I'd hate this (it was just coming in when youngest went to school).

I think you either trust the staff or you don't.

If you trust them, no cam necessary.

If you don't, then it's time to move them out of that setting.

AnguaResurgam do you toss a coin to decide if you trust them?

Seriously how can you tell? Bad (and simply neglectful) people look the same a good people.

I think you either trust the staff or you don't.

What about the settings where the trust is misplaced?

I think its a brilliant idea and needs to be extended to old folks home places where anyone vunerable is in an others care.

Yes they could be abused away from camera HOWEVER one can still see childs expression, are they interacting and so on.
Brilliant idea.

AnguaResurgam

I disagree, having worked in a few care settings the balance can change very quickly when new member of staff comes in, this psychology was mentioned in winterbourne view case, where a dominant male led the others.

Temp staff coming in, bad day etc.

Humans have proven time and time and time and time again, they cannot be trusted with vulnerable people. its not personal its just the way it is.

get cameras in and start to protect our vulnerable people.

Offends your ego? Tough.

DS starts nursery this week. I wish they did have one of these.

I believe he will be fine. But I on the other hand would be relieved and less worried if I could log on and take a peek from time to time.

Ballon if no cameras when you can simply pop in now and again unannounced...or a little bit early...

I wouldn't want my DD's nursery to have this, not because of child protection issues but because it sounds horrible for the staff. I can't imagine trying to do my work while being constantly watched.

This is a horrendous idea. If this happened at my child's nursery, I would pull them out in an instant.

My child's life is private and should not be viewed for anyone's entertainment / nosiness. For crying out loud, let your child find their own way in the world without constantly being watched.

1. I used to work in a nursery and as a nanny and occasionally did a job where I picked up a child from a nursery that was considered the best one in the city that had a long waiting list for spots. I saw things that really concerned me and reported them to SS and the family. Obviously many families trusted this nursery and on the surface it looked fantastic with great facilities and staff that behaved when around parents. One of the things I noticed was that the staff often bunked off and had long breaks and would leave the youngest most inexperienced staff member to look after way too many kids.

2. If you have a child with severe limpet syndrome you would understand why having a camera is helpful to reassure parents who have to have screaming and sobbing kids pealed off them. It was very distressing for me for a while because my child was so miserable no matter what we did. He hated it when he didn't get to go, he hated it when he did go, he hated arriving and leaving. He was a very high intensity child and I needed a break and a few hours of childcare but it was so upsetting. The director and I formed a plan to help me. I knew logically he was happy being there because I could see that when I came to pick him up and would sneak a peek before he saw me, but those first ten minutes after leaving are just awful. I would drive round the corner where he couldn't see me and after five minutes they would go out in the garden with him to fetch something so I could see he had calmed down. It was very reassuring to me. A webcam would have achieved the same thing with less effort for the staff.

3. if you check in from time to time and see something happening (painting, a visit from an interesting person, playing with trains etc) then that is something you can talk about with your child when they come home.

A nursery we use has this. Not used it for ages. You are limited to how long you can log in, the password is changed frequently and nappy changes are off cam.
There were cameras in all the rooms that the children used, as well as the garden and the kitchen.
Cameras didn't provide close up images, but you knew your own child when you saw them.

Elf... Yes and no to that, because the nurseries (rightly so) have buzzer intercoms with cameras when you go to collect your child... So staff always know when a parent will enter the room.

I once worked in a nursery where one day several staff members who were far more qualified than me took some children to play out of the nursery in local park... They left one there. The child was still there and unharmed thank god when they eventually realised a good five minutes after returning back the child's parents were never informed and child didn't speak well enough that they would have been able to drop nursery staff in it. I wish I was a bit more streetwise then as now in hindsight I should have made a big hullabaloo but at the time I was eager to please and keep a job...

In the highly unlikely scenario of a peedo gaining access then there isn't much they can do with the images.

They could sit at home wanking in comfort to images of your child. And they could pass the password on to all their friends to do the same. And what would a peedo look for in a nursery? Probably a parents camera.

Luckily there aren't many peedos about, but it's the 'regular' pervy parents that the female staff have to worry about. All those fathers who talk to chests instead of faces.

I think my issue here is more around others watching my child at nursery. I just don't like that idea. I trust my nursery and my child is happy. I see lots of photos of him.

It really annoys me when other parents video/photograph swimming/other lessons etc on a regular basis. The odd photo/video I'm quite happy with, but I just don't like the idea of my child frequently being in images that are held by others.

They could sit at home wanking in comfort to images of your child.

Images (probably grainy unclear ones) of fully dressed children.

If people want images of fully dressed children they can look on an childrens clothes store websites. They can look on any school website. They can take their own photos walking down the street.

The peedo issue is pretty small. The creepy father is a far bigger problem.

err you may be picturing a porn film with a moving camera, but this is probably going to be a b/w image shot from the corner of a ceiling. You'd recognise your own kid, but that would be about it.

Also maybe you need to ban fathers from going to the nursery if they are all like that because they can SEE the kids.

Of course a pedo could be looking at images but surely they would be in local play park, in swimming pool, siting by local schools?

what could they get out of fuzzy crap tv?

Some fathers are already 'banned' from talking to some staff. I've worked in nurseries where some staff members are moved about so they don't have to talk to particularly lecherous parents.

You work in a nursery with that attitude? Now I am worried.