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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

To ask what's the beef with benefits?

631 replies

mytartanscarf · 04/01/2015 14:33

Do people think they are too little? That they should be more?

There's always a lot of upset on here about them - about how wrong the government are and how awful life is on benefits. I've never been on benefits so obviously can't judge. But what are the solutions?

I suppose I am asking what should the government do?

OP posts:
Dawndonnaagain · 05/01/2015 22:25

Oh, and as for hours, I told someone on here at 9.30 last night that I was going to bed. I did, until 10.15, although hadn't got to sleep. I still haven't been.
zzzzz!

LuisSuarezTeeth · 05/01/2015 22:28

I should point out Dawn that I'm not a carer in the same way as you and Lefty are.

LeftyLoony · 05/01/2015 22:29

Yup DawnDonna - I've got to that stage of fatigue where I'm not sleeping so I dropped off at 2 only to have DD up at 2.30, DS at 4. They've spent the day screaming...

Dawndonnaagain · 05/01/2015 22:29

Apologies Luis. And Thank you for your kindness and support. Again! Wine Flowers

Dawndonnaagain · 05/01/2015 22:31

Ahh, dd has a chest infection and Dh isn't too well either, between the two...

z
z
z
Grin

Dawndonnaagain · 05/01/2015 22:32

Hang on DawnDonna. I get a week in a tent. Ok the kids come too so I have to make sure they don't trash the campsite
Now you're just showing off! Grin

LeftyLoony · 05/01/2015 22:37

Show off or masochist? Grin
I'd also like to thank Luis for the kindness shown.
In more down times I've felt that actually the majority of people think the way just three people have expressed on this thread. Mainly because I've encountered it from my brother and sister. But I realise that actually I was bloody unlucky, that people like that are the minority.
People like Luis really help. And others. But I'm terrible with names.

greyhoundgymnastics · 05/01/2015 22:42

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RufusTheReindeer · 05/01/2015 22:52

helena

She's the gift that keeps on giving!

So no one should get free prescriptions...well that will end well

And I also find it insulting to infer or imply (can never remember Grin) that everyone with free prescription is a wasteful spendthrift and doctors are incapable of saying no to their patients!!

LeftyLoony · 05/01/2015 22:54

Oh goody another one.

Yes greyhound, because I don't make a contribution to society dontcha know Hmm

LeftyLoony · 05/01/2015 22:55

(of course I'm sure greyhound missed the bit where I've said I've been a taxpayer and will be again)

notauniquename · 05/01/2015 23:05

I don't think it's controversial to say that VW is more prestige that Peugeot, or Ford is more prestige than Vauxhall? sure none are Mercedes, but there clearly still are levels of prestige, (price tags would seem to support this?) and the way in which VW cars tend to hold their value?

(asking can you do it cheaper isn't a bad question, it's one I have to ask myself everyday!)

Essentially it's a computer system issue! not a problem that means the system is broken.
Does that put food on the table then? Does that make it right?

No of course, not, but nor does just proclaiming that the whole system is broken (as some appear to have done in this thread!) what I'm saying is that rather than just shouting it's broken throw it all away and start again, it's probably more beneficial to focus and campaign on that single point. -the problem isn't that "benefits as a whole are broken. (perhaps a thread on how to make cheap meals if you want to talk about putting food on the table?)

I can't see anyone who purports to receive benefits showing that they feel any empathy for anyone working struggling to survive and paying tax to provide the very welfare system that they are reliant on.

That's because they are too busy trying to make ends meet, get a job, feed their kids and defend themselves against ignorant people like you.

Funny, I can be busy working, and struggling to make ends meet, struggling to feed family, struggling under crippling debt repayments, and still show empathy and still ask questions. (should I not ask questions? - I was always told that the stupid questions were the ones that weren't asked? now you seem to suggest it's ignorant to ask questions?)
Is it just maybe impossible to have this conversation and expect mutual respect and understanding from both sides? (admittedly perhaps I didn't show enough, and clearly haven't read all posts properly.)

Plus actually that comment assumes that those in receipt of benefits have never worked, never struggled, never paid tax.

No, it doesn't. the really stupid thing about any arguments like this is that most people (myself included) earn so little that they will always take out more from the state system than they put in...

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/8417205.stm

There's a link that talks about tax: and one that actually shows the tax breakdown...
<a class="break-all" href="http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20121106103415/www.hmrc.gov.uk/stats/income_tax/table2-4.pdf" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20121106103415/www.hmrc.gov.uk/stats/income_tax/table2-4.pdf

So maybe I shouldn't talk about tax contributions that "I" make in order to fund the welfare system, since (to compare with America where you get an idea of how much medical care costs, I can say that I have not in my life ever paid enough to even cover my birth, (let alone pre-adult dental care vaccinations etc)

(you also get -since someone was talking about torys earlier) that the top 1% have had the least share in the past ten years under torys than they were allowed to get away with under labour. the bottom 5% of the country under labour earned 1.5% of all the money in the country, (or less), under the tory/lib-dem coalition it's been 1.5% or more, the rich, (top 1%, top5% or top 10% pay a greater percentage of the total tax bill than they have ever paid before.)

The point I'm clumsily trying to make is:
That it's a huge struggle for everyone.
That it's not a situation that I've been in (nor onee that I'd want to be in), so I can only know what I'm told, and only find out more by asking questions.
That sometimes you find out surprising things. -like this coalition government haven't cut taxes for the rich they (the rich) pay a greater percentage than ever before... (and I "the poor" pay less tax).

greyhoundgymnastics · 05/01/2015 23:11

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greyhoundgymnastics · 05/01/2015 23:11

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Dawndonnaagain · 05/01/2015 23:12

That sometimes you find out surprising things. -like this coalition government haven't cut taxes for the rich they (the rich) pay a greater percentage than ever before... (and I "the poor" pay less tax)
Shock

Dawndonnaagain · 05/01/2015 23:13

greyhound
The way we are frequently victimised on these threads, it's surely easy to see why we may be a tad aggressive. Your post wasn't exactly clear, was it.

LeftyLoony · 05/01/2015 23:14

Right and after reading the thread you're surprised?
It's a sarcastic comment aimed at someone who is doing a really good job of behaving as I'd expect a complete dick to!

LeftyLoony · 05/01/2015 23:14

Don't worry about it Dawn, it's more bullshit bulked out with as many words as possible.

greyhoundgymnastics · 05/01/2015 23:16

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greyhoundgymnastics · 05/01/2015 23:17

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notauniquename · 05/01/2015 23:20

I am sorry you appear to think that carer's are greedy, not entitled to breaks and shouldn't (albeit for very, very short periods of time) put themselves first on occasion.

I never said that.
(so now it's you taking things out of context?)
in fact what I said is that when you read the thread you should sympathise and
"feel angry that people who are sick and those that care for them as a full time job don't get anything near the minimum wage for what they are doing all day, and all night all week."

(I can't honestly see how that can be taken as anything other than support and saying that those people who are carers should have "looking after theif family" recognised as a full time job, and get paid "at least" minimum wage for doing that job, for every hour that "they" need to do that job.

no, I don't know the ins and outs of the mobility scheme,
That's why I asked, you you just want, or is that a real need.
Maybe this is something that I'll never fully understand unless I experience it?
However I also don't believe that when a car suddenly gets to three years old that it suddenly becomes unreliable?

LeftyLoony · 05/01/2015 23:20

Well, you do have to wonder why someone would rock up on page 21 of a thread so rich in material to discuss and pick one single comment.

No comment about a poster being gleeful that services we depend upon (not just want, depend upon) will be withdrawn from us.

No, nothing about that.
Just picking at a sarcastic comment made after pages of being goaded.

LeftyLoony · 05/01/2015 23:25

No it doesn't become unreliable, not.
The basis of the scheme is that the vehicle (whatever it is) is leased for the mobility component of DLA or PIP for three years. The component is the same for EVERYONE in receipt of it, regardless of personal income.

Then the vehicle is sold so that motability recoups the cost of the vehicle.

It wouldn't work with old vehicles due to depreciation, higher repair bills and potential recovery costs on breakdown.

If a person puts down a hefty downpayment they can have a different vehicle. Whether that is down to want or need is irrelevant - you can have luxury or a people carrier that doesn't matter, what matters is the depreciation rate and what motability will get for the vehicle at the end which obviously will be less for a people carrier than other models (hence the high downpayment) and for high end luxury vehicles.

BUT the daily mail campaigning for any vehicle over a £2k downpayment meant that people carriers got wiped out too. Quite a few people need them due to boot size.

The idea is that the scheme breaks even. That's it.

LeftyLoony · 05/01/2015 23:27

So, brand new cost of vehicle at bulk purchase price less lease premiums x 156 less sale price = downpayment.

notauniquename · 05/01/2015 23:29

That sometimes you find out surprising things. -like this coalition government haven't cut taxes for the rich they (the rich) pay a greater percentage than ever before... (and I "the poor" pay less tax)
shock

Of course that's not implying that they are by any means "the good guys",
It was just a random and weird fact that came up when I was actually trying to search for a link (since a distinction was made between opinion and facts with links earlier)
but it goes to show that it's difficult to believe a lot of what's quoted on TV.

but mostly it shows that when you actually look at the figures, "the sainted tax payer"â„¢ barely pays for them self anyway.