AIBU to their their are a lot of people playing at being a sw

[Canigetanamen]

I noticed a lot of threads about people being witness to a snap shot what the "deem" abuse ffs

This often included snap shots of bevahiour displayed while in public when the context is not know viewed through t he prism of their own parenting style

You get a lot of these posters saying well I would never parent,speak to my child like that forgetting that all people have parenting. Styles and the harshness of any parent is very subjective

you get told by some you must report this incidents though you have no clue what's happend as you only viewed a snap shot less a child get abused and many children are abused because people do nothing

Yes but that is in a environment were the child is known to the adult and it's very clear what is happening over a period of time.
Eg a child attending school or adult who's child plays with a local child regularly who notices things or has disclosures made but dose nothing VERY different.

those who actually know anything about abuse of child protection no that ss do not make sweeping judgements based on one off incident they as they no people have bad days and all my not be as it seems at first glance and deeming something as abuse simply because it offends your guardian sences and you wouldn't dream of doing that with your children is dangerous and often let's real abusers go un noticed the whole point is that child abusers are often VERY controlled and don't often loose it their charming and will have every one believe they are the prefect parent and very seldom loose in in public somone mentioned poor baby p on one of the threads and the hole point to that was she was very controlled an manuliputive and didn't ever loose it in front of any one just like abusive men are not usually the ones having the row with their wife in tesco their usually the ones that have never so muched raised their voice in public hence people finding it even harder to believe and more easily dismissed*

So if you really think a child is being abused then call ss if you no the context and your shore your not viewing the incident the though the prism of your own parenting style because their is a big diffrence between labeling somone a child abuser and just being judgey about perceived poor parenting

I think it is possible to witness as a one off an incident of abuse (that is probably an example of ongoing abuse) as a member of the public. I have seen an incident that over 10 yrs on makes me feel deeply sad and suck to my stomach :(
However you are right that through regular contact with the children/family you are more likely to see and be very certain that a behaviour is abusive/that a child is showing inns of having been abused. I worked for many years in early years settings and in 18 yrs only had 7 occasions where I saw evidence that led me to be concerned about a child's safety. Sadly I expect many more of the children I worked for were being abused in someway - if statistics can be believed.
Having also worked as a volunteer for a charity for a very specific type of vulnerable family that there is a huge lack of practical support for vulnerable families that is not made up for by regular benefits.
The ss face a huge task in trying to prioritise the reports that they receive and this inevitably means that some children slip through the net...

*Need to build up a pattern over time.

I can categorically state I would never ever treat another human being the way that man treated his son. I noticed you ignored the part about his mum eating her breakfast with tears streaming down her face. That is not normal.

Idiotic to think otherwise.

Something that is one snap shot for you can be a part of a bigger picture and help get a child out of an abusive situation. So YABU. Oh and im training to be a sw.

If you've seen something that makes you believe you're witnessing abuse, you might be the only person who ever has the opportunity to get SS involved on behalf of a child who is going through hell.

You most certainly shouldn't hesitate to contact them just because what you've seen isn't enough for the child to be removed or because you're are not 100% certain that it isn't a one off.

SS don't work on the principle of 'remove the child or ignore the problem'. They work hard with families to make improvements to the child's home life and the parenting in order to enable families to stay together. By reporting behaviour that concerns you, you are giving SS the opportunity to visit, assess and offer support. Removal way beyond what you should be thinking about when wondering if a family needs support.

I'm a SW Manager and in 20 odd years have had 2 calls of suspected abuse in shops, both of which were caught on CCTV. Don't ever think people "clog up phones" by reporting suspected abuse. I know of a good few calls that appeared minor until we investigated further and they turned into horrendous abuse cases. Sometimes when you scratch the surface there are untold horrors waiting underneath.

social services don't just deal with 'child abusers' though - they can help families in need of support and parent at breaking point

they can and do investigate emotional abuse and neglect and if anyone has concerns about a child and thinks they are at risk of harm - sexual, physical or emotional then they should report it

SS being under staffed and over worked is a separate issue - it certainly shouldn't influence peoples decision to report concerns

I am well aware of what SW and SS do

My mother (who I'm nc with and have been for many years) calls social services on me at least once a month, always for the same reason, they have to come out every time. My son is transgender, I am supporting him through that, have got him all the help and support he needs from school, organisations for children like him and professional people, yet because she calls every month saying I am emotionally abusing him they have to keep coming out.

Its very frustrating to me, and them, that their time is being wasted like this. Although, in many ways, I would rather their time be wasted so they can check everything is fine, I do wonder how many important things get missed because their caseload is full of people being reported for nonsense.

Being on the receiving end of multiple social service calls does show me that one persons abusive isn't another persons abusive.

Those who actually know anything about abuse of child protection no that ss do not make sweeping judgements based on one off incident

No you're right we don't, but we DO investigate. The full OP concerns me. I could take every sentence and give you an example to prove that you're spouting absolute rubbish. Your outlook worries me OP.

I think incidents are heavily played down on here not the other way round. They are excused as being a one off or just a snapshot of the whole day or just different style parenting.

I'd not hesitate to report any parent I thought was either emotionally of physically abusing their child. That's was SS are there for, to protect the child and they can't do that until they are aware of the family.

I totally agree with Derek. I bet the woman in the supermarket from the other thread shouted for a minute in reality.

What is this "screaming in someone's face" anyway? A scream is a noise. Are these people really letting out a load high pitch noise in someone's face?

I reported someone to SS ..Since the stuff I found out about.I am pleased I did. It helps build up a picture.

I am trained in safeguarding in my job. It is not for me who has to assess. I pass it on. I didn't read the child flinching thread so won't make comments on that

I'm sorry but I'm going to have to report the op to the grammar and spelling authorities.

If you witness an incident of abuse in the street you have no idea whether that was a one off or part of a pattern. That's not your judgement to make. You should not assume either actually. If it is possible to inform the police or social services you should do so, and they will or won't investigate.
What people should not do is neither excuse abusive behaviour as 'different parenting styles' nor assume that all behaviour that doesn't tally with our own parenting styles is abusive.

Don't worry though, social workers have plenty of training around identifying and working through their own value judgements about parenting. We don't go charging in imposing 'middle class parenting' on 'shouts chavs' it's a bit more complex than that.

in that context, I'd say a shout is when you raise your voice in anger, and a scream is when you can't raise it any higher.

People are quick to judge, forgetting it wasn't long ago the neighbour would drag u home buy the ear , for a hiding from your parents. It was acceptable.

We didn't have nearly so many bag eggs in those days. I got smacked by mum and it never did me any harm.

Tbh, I did it once, in the street.

DS was about 8 and really kicking off at choosing the wrong sweets. I threw a tantrum back and he's never done it since.

(Got the idea from an advert!)

I would always report any incident that in my opinion needed reporting.

I have worked with troubled families and almost all had SS involvement in some capacity or another. It takes a lot for SS to remove kids and frankly some should have been removed at birth but parents were given support and assistance to prove they could parent their own children and put the needs of the child above their own. Bar a couple of exceptions nearly all of them demonstrated they were unable to do this.

Whilst all this was going on the infant/child was left in an environment that at best was neglectful and at worse posed a real threat to their safety. The thresholds for placing a child on CP plan are so high (at least in the borough I worked in) that it would take a lot for the family to get anywhere near the involvement it needed and most were dropped down to child in need plans despite concerns by all the other professionals involved (health,education etc).

If the incident witnessed is a one off or a parent or carer in need of extra support then surely them getting that support is better than letting them struggle.

I have no qualms about reporting and wish more people did instead of minimising what is often the tip of the iceberg were some children/families are concerned.

I completely disagree OP. Reporting a concern to SS is absolutely not 'playing at being a sw' - completely the opposite. It's passing on a concern to someone more qualified than you so that THEY can decide whether a child is being abused or not.

I don't believe for a second that there are hordes of middle class parents reporting people they don't even know on the basis of some spurious snap shot they witnessed. Think about it logically; how would you even report some person who's name and address you don't even know? It's also bloody insulting to suggest that society is made up of naice middle class parents who never shout at their kids and chavs who do it all the time.

I also will never, ever understand this idea that if someone reports a concern to SS they must want the child taken away from their parent. I think anyone with half a functioning brain cell understands that SS don't just swoop in and remove kids on the say so of MrsNaiceMiddleClass who saw them being shouted at on their way back from Waitrose.

I've had to report something once and it was a truly horrible experience. I absolutely did NOT believe that the children needed removing, I didn't even know if abuse was actually taking place (a child made a disclosure to me) but I did think someone with more expertise than me needed to look into it.

I agree in principle but that's just not where society is at the moment.

In the conversations that surrounded baby peter, khyra ishaq and daniel pelka, the message was quite clear that communities have a role to play in highlighting abuse where authorities didn't have the capacity to pick up on all the warning signs.

I very much agree that people can read far too much into a snapshot of a child's life without any context or real life experience to be able to measure what their response should be. But the sense of responsibility for bearing witness has been encouraged.

I'm not sure what to do about it, but I don't think people can be critiqued because they care but don't have the relevant knowledge. Education is key but it's a complex message to get out and much more detailed than the simple 'if you're concerned contact ss/nspcc/police/school' and raise your concerns.

Surely over reporting is better than under reporting. SS do investigate, they don't just take reports at face value.

I have said this before on here, under a previous name. I was reported maliciously by two different people. They had urged each other on to do it.

SS investigated, they spoke to the school, they spoke to my HV, they came and spoke to us and my children. I showed the text threatening to report me and hoping my DC had a better life with their new parents.

It was a bit scary at the time, but because I do not actually neglect and abuse my children, it was OK! They did not take my DC from me! So no harm came about because I was reported. If I had been a neglectful abuser, then some good may have come out of it for my DC! I say this even knowing the calls were made out of malice rather than concern!

DH is a police officer. His advice has always been to report to SS, I'm very glad as a society we're moving on from taking the stance that ït's not our business." Of course there are malicious reports and reports that turn up nothing, but should never be a reason not to report if you truly believe their is child abuse going on, under funding/staffing of SS shouldn't ever stop someone from reporting, it is a separate issue.

Why do you feel the need to write another thread to discuss what was happening on a thread? Whilst sometimes a thread may provoke thoughts which you don't want to clog up a thread with- you have taken posts that other people have written and are talking about them, a bit out of order in my book.
What was described in the original thread was abusive behaviour, this may well have been the only occasion it had ever happened, it was still abusive behaviour does not mean the child is being abused also it may not have been the only time.
All safeguarding training tells you, if you are a person witnessing abusive behaviours it is not your judgement call to make, you pass that info on, without being in the shop and witnessing personally no-one can say if that should be passed on or not.
It is quite clear that it is not only physical abuse which needs reporting.
Actually find your posts to be quite worrying.

Completely agree IamTitanium.

YABU. Social workers would rather lay people "clogged up the phones" than ignored a potentially harmful situation. Not that we get hundreds of phone calls like this anyway tbh.

OP has someone reported you to SS? Is this why you have reacted in such a way? You state differences in parenting style, what exactly do you mean by that? Do you shout a lot at your children?