To expect in laws to childproof their house?

[SquidgyMaltLoaf]

PIL and my DM have kindly offered to take our DD for a day a week each when I go back to work. She will most likely be crawling by then and I'm worried about her being with them. My DM is very careful with putting things out of her reach and making sure everything is safe so I don't worry at all when she's with her, but I do worry when she's with PIL.

They have, for example, cables trailing all over the floor under appliances; ancient, uncovered sockets; chairs that are falling apart (certainly not through lack of money that these haven't been replaced); broken floor tiles (ditto above); a high chair that is held together by elastic; an open fire with the world's oldest and IMHO fairly useless fire guard. The kitchen itself is ancient and not very clean, and they don't wash crockery properly or take care with raw meat and regularly put the dog's bowl on the worktop where they also prepare food (incidentally I'm certainly no clean freak but I do like hygiene...).

I know there's possibly an element of pfb in my thinking but I can't help looking round and seeing all the potential hazards. How much is it reasonable for us to ask them to sort things out? If it were just us taking her over there I would expect full responsibility for her safety to lie with DH and me, but if we're not there we can't do that. There would be an almighty row if we said we didn't want them to look after her, so what can I do to make me feel happier and her safer?

I think things a childminder/ nursery would be told off about would need to be changed.
We had to stop visiting DNan as open roaring fire all year round and lots of ceramics at low levels.

Im sure a lot of people have amassed a lots of antique type things over the yrs and leave them at lower levels than if they had young kids.
Houses are a lot more open plan not everyone can even shut kids out of the kitchen.

covered sockets came into common use in the 1920's and were legally required for new fits from the 1940's so I doubt anyone has the old sockets any more unless they live in the middle of nowhere and don't bother with such stuff as electrical safety.

My own PIL have some: StepFIL has the same attitude to safety ?? and wouldn't pay for anyone to do any DIY he could do himself.
This includes taking out one of his chimneys

They have lots of the modern type - they've had to when they needed to replace them - but they still have a few lurking.

I think in laws childcare is a massive MN blind spot. It assumes there is an option which doesn't cause offence. My in-laws would go nuclear if I attempted to knock their childcare on the head - there was enough in the way of icy silences and strangled sobs when I said (as I imagined was obvious) that DD1 would not be coming to them when I was on mat leave. And when it was initially offered, it was put in such a way that refusal would have been a Big Deal. Like all things, there is a price attached....

If you think your child will be unsafe there then you can't let your child be looked after there.

They may be willing to child proof certain areas, they might not. But if you're scared to have a conversation with them now it doesn't bode well does does it? What if they do activities you don't like or discipline your child in a way you don't agree with?

I think it may be good to take the approach that child proofing makes their job easier. I certainly noticed a huge difference when we stayed in a hotel that was reasonably posh but everything was safe and secure, to holiday houses and friends' houses with open stairs, accessible kitchens and nicknacks - didn't get to sit down for a minute! My DPs have a number of hazards in their house but spend time making it safer before DD goes there (one day a week). I bought DM things she needed such as a drop sided cot. DPILs don't childproof but do follow DD around and don't get narked when I move toilet cleaner etc out of reach.

I would massively second the point that childcare you are worrying about while at work is no good at all. Any chance of DH going down to 4 days and taking DD to his DPs on the 5th if it's so important she goes there?

I'd just offer to sort out the most obvious hazards along with fulsome thanks for what they are doing. So buy and fit socket covers and get a cheap but safe high chair and a big Ikea rug (just her play rug for the tiles you know).

You could just take one round and say DD loves playing with electrics and I wouldn't want her to freak you out by sticking her finger in sockets

How is a baby going to stick a finger in a uk plug socket? They are designed to be small enough that a finger on anything other than a really tiny baby won't fit.

Pin style Socket covers damage the already built in safety feature on what is without a socket cover the safest plug socket in the world. Not only do they do that but they also make them less safe whilst the cover is being used.

My own PIL have some: StepFIL has the same attitude to safety and wouldn't pay for anyone to do any DIY he could do himself.
This includes taking out one of his chimneys

Seriously! he has pre 40's sockets? Does he also have a mortgage? You might want to tell him its usually a condition of the mortgage to have bs 1363 sockets. And insurance usually insist as well.if something went wrong he could end up seriously out of pocket

No mortgage, no. All paid off. And he did his rewiring himself, using Tesco Carrier Bags (those well-known insulators) to wrap the wires. That's how some of the sockets got missed.
Apparently he is not the only person ever to have done this.

Why on earth pay a qualified professional to do the job properly?

That's why I mentioned it in answer to the OP. "Ancient sockets" chimed unpleasantly

their insurance will be invalid.

Sockets don't need covers - do some reading, not as dangerous as they look

Childminders are registered for a reason, they confirm to education and safeguarding standards. I think you need to pay for childcare or pay for new things in their house

Just read about ancient sockets. I think you need to pay for childcare as there is too much you aren't happy with

I don't think it is the child proofing that is the issue here, it is that you don't trust them with your child. Buying a new high chair won't change that. From what you have said- bad kitchen hygiene, rickety furniture, cables everywhere- I wouldn't leave my child there. Who has a highchair held together by elastic, honestly? What kind of attitude does that person have towards safety?

Are they planning to make significant changes before they start caring for your child? Have you taken her round there yet- did they sort things out before you arrived, did they watch her, pull dangerous items out of her reach, anticipate what she might do next?

It is equally concerning that you and DH can't talk to them about this. You need to be able to have frank conversations with whoever is caring for your child. What if you clash on discipline/ food/ safety once childcare has started?

Obviously you have said they will be angry if you decline their offer of childcare, so posters suggesting you are wanting to dictate free childcare are off the mark. It is better to have a disagreement with your PIL than your daughter be injured though. I would start by having a frank conversation with them to ask what changes if any they would welcome before childcare starts.

Thanks for all your opinions. Regarding sockets, it's useful to know about the covers and I'll do some research. However I wouldn't be surprised if they were pre-1940s as a lot of stuff in the house is - MIL is rather suspicious of new stuff and thinks that electricians, gas engineers etc only say things are dangerous to get money out of you. Unless something has fallen apart completely beyond repair they use it - admirable in some circumstances but IMHO in others it's very irritating at best (eg sink propped up on bits of wood, ancient, falling apart drawers that can't be cleaned properly) and dangerous at worst (chairs falling apart when you sit on them, dodgy electrics). They take the batteries out of smoke alarms as they can't stand the beeping. MIL thinks seatbelt laws are taking away her personal freedom.

They are actually lovely people - kind, generous, love DD to distraction - but I just don't know what to do about this. It's hard to know where I'm being precious and where I'm being cautious. I don't want to come across as trying to dictate but at the same time I do worry.

And I don't think they'd be angry if we said no, just deeply hurt and offended, and they'd think I was even more weird than they already do (because I like new things and care about things being nice).