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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think this is unfair, and quit my job over it

102 replies

mytartanscarf · 25/12/2014 22:35

I'll try my best not to drip feed.

Okay - I work in people's homes providing care to them. Most calls are 15 minutes so an average shift has between 12 and 15 people on them. We don't get paid for the time travelling between people's homes. So each 15 min call is less than £2.

Now we have phones to log in and out of peoples homes. We won't get paid if we don't use them but get paid to the minute. So if a 15 minute call is 11 minutes we only get paid for that.

Some people take so long getting to the door that it's 2 minutes 'unpaid' time on top of travel time

Aibu to think this is really unfair?

OP posts:
Coyoacan · 26/12/2014 07:21

I live abroad, OP, so I can't give you any advice on your rights, but I am curious why you would refuse ever to take JSA, considering that it is paid for out of your taxes?

Purplepoodle · 26/12/2014 08:28

Friend moved to a care home as she had same problem you are

PfftTheMagicDraco · 26/12/2014 08:31

I know ECC user this system - I'd you do work for them just to let you know, it's currently being appealed through the courts.

Cornettoninja · 26/12/2014 08:51

It's massively unfair but it's also really common. Chuck in the minimum HMRC allowance for petrol and no payments for wear and tear on your car and not exactly appealing.

I left care work years ago - just couldn't afford to work in it anymore - so I'm not unappreciative of your situation but don't leave a job without something to go to if it's your only source of income.

JSA is a moot point, you won't be eligible if you've left employment voluntarily. My only advice would be to find an agency that offers full shifts in residential or sheltered homes so you will get paid for your full hours or look for a completely different role altogether.

While it's been challenged in the courts companies will carry on until they're forced to change.

VixxenPlusAllTheOtherReindeers · 26/12/2014 08:54

The carers that work for me get enough time to get from clients homes, at least fifteen minutes.
We try to give them clients in the same area so it's not too far to walk or drive.

The logging in and out is ridiculous. I wouldn't be able to do the job and I am full of admiration for those who do.

I second the pp who said you should look at a care home where you could get a yearly salary.

P.s my company pays travel time and/milege.

Slutbucket · 26/12/2014 09:06

If you are in Yorkshire we are crying out for support workers OP. I work for a very reputable employer who wouldn't expect you to work like this.

notsogoldenoldie · 26/12/2014 09:26

Please take this up with your employer. This is common practice for care staff. Apart from your unacceptable working conditions, you are also running the risk of compromising client care. Get onto that Acas helpline now.

And if you are not in a union, join one. Get yourselves organised.

Just because these practices are common does nit mean they are acceptable.

LuisSuarezTeeth · 26/12/2014 10:31

This is ILLEGAL - I have successfully claimed against the company I worked for as I was coming out with a lot less than minimum wage.

I have spreadsheets set up to calculate everything precisely and can advise on how to tackle this with your employer. Please feel free to PM if you would like more info. Most important - DON'T STAND FOR IT! More people in this sector need to stand up for their rights. HMRC can investigate too if you approach them - they did for me.

Original poster
mytartanscarf · 26/12/2014 10:52

Thanks.

Okay - joining a union is good advice, BUT costs money. As others have noted care companies DO do this

I won't claim job seekers because well why would I - I do have a small independent source of income and I can always get another job. Job seekers doesn't buy anyone anything anyway. And I don't pay tax! Grin (don't earn enough.)

So anyway I had a think and have now resigned. Knowing me I would drop and break the phone anyway and to be honest there's just too many annoyances and irritations with working for the company, so I'm done and it feels soooo good!

OP posts:
notsogoldenoldie · 26/12/2014 11:11

Well done mytartanXmas Smile

FrogIsATwatInASantaHat · 26/12/2014 11:19

I run a cleaning company and i pay my staff from the moment they arrive at first call to the moment they leave the last. So thats all travel time plus mileage if they are using there own car.

Original poster
mytartanscarf · 26/12/2014 11:30

It just really isn't worth it. Any profit I made would be marginal and it stresses me out and makes me unhappy.

OP posts:
CaptainHammer · 26/12/2014 11:34

Unfortunately this is a regular thing in home care. I now work for a decent home care company who have allotted and paid for travel time, we also don't have to clock in and out. There are some decent home care companies out there, it just takes a lot of interviews to find them. We are looking for a new carer, south east if you're down this way!

Original poster
mytartanscarf · 26/12/2014 11:37

Unfortunately I'm based up North!

I am honestly relieved; I'd been dithering for a while about whether to leave or not and now I have I just feel so free. The hours were awful and I found some of the other carers really difficult. (Some were lovely.)

OP posts:
IAmAShitHotLawyer · 26/12/2014 11:40

OP do you have to work a months notice? Use that month to look for another job. Everyone who does home care ends up going into residential care in the end.

As long as you can pass a DBS check you will always find work in care.

Original poster
mytartanscarf · 26/12/2014 11:51

I know, but I don't think I want to work in a care home. I might see if I can get something with working for someone as an individual (through direct payments) otherwise I won't bother!

OP posts:
Bonnylassie · 26/12/2014 12:40

I worked for a social care company and we talked about trialling a similar system but couldn't see how we could get around problems such as the time stayed vs. time paid. It is common that service users send staff home earlier than the call especially if it's just for a medication call. It would be impossible to work out where the service user genuinely sent staff home early and staff who were taking the mick and would leave early. We were in a slightly different position to your company as we refused to take 15 minute calls. The minimum we would do were 30 minute calls.

Unfortunately travel time isn't paid as most if not all councils refuse to fund this and is totally legal.

The rest sounds illegal and I would speak to the care standards commission for advice as they are the regulating body for the industry.

Original poster
mytartanscarf · 26/12/2014 13:01

I'm pretty sure it's legal, as theoretically you COULD stay longer than 15 minutes and be paid but in practice that would just never happen. You couldn't due to constraints on time.

OP posts:
LuisSuarezTeeth · 26/12/2014 13:18

If your pay divided by (contact time + travelling time) = less than NMW, this becomes illegal.

Original poster
mytartanscarf · 26/12/2014 13:23

It doesn't work like that though Luis and all care companies that I know of do it.

What's frustrating is the amount of travel we do and the fact this means if you work a 20 hour week it's more like 30. And the pays rubbish anyway and they take still MORE from us.

So glad I've resigned - roll on end of January!

OP posts:
LuisSuarezTeeth · 26/12/2014 13:27

Tartan it DOES work that way, or should. And I know a lot do it - this is why people should stand up to them.

My lot could not argue with the facts. HMRC investigated and they have now changed their pay structure as well as paying me what I was owed.

LuisSuarezTeeth · 26/12/2014 13:27

Ask HMRC to investigate anyway - you could be doing a lot of people a huge favour, especially the clients Smile

BallsforEarings · 26/12/2014 13:28

We are a cleaning company - domestic mainly! I am always at pains to make sure our staff come away with more than minimum wage from the moment they land at the first job to the minute they finish the last!

It IS hard because time spent 'between jobs' is not billable but the company must set their prices accordingly to cover all labour costs plus cost of doing business, if they have not set their prices correctly to be able to adequately compensate you for all your time then that is their bad - I would check with ACAS as Raltheraffe recommended!

Is IS the nature of the care industry and also the big name cleaning franchises operate this way but that doesn't make it right or legal!!

LuisSuarezTeeth · 26/12/2014 13:32

Interesting stuff here

And here, with a number to call

MammaTJ · 26/12/2014 13:32

What do you have against working in a care home?

I have worked in some fabulous ones. I worked in one which some of the carers weren't great but I figured making it the best I could for the residents for the 12 hour shift I was there for made a lot of difference.

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