to send this to my prospective employer

[meandyouohyeah]

Just accepted a job but trying to negotiate the pay. It's my first time dong this so please steer me in the right direction MN!

or how would you better word it? Thanks in advance!

Dear Manager,

Thank you for taking the time to meet with me on day, I hope you had a lovely Christmas.

Please feel free to forward this email to and/or copy in Senior Manager.

I would be very happy to join business commencing from date as discussed. However re: salary, upon further calculations from the hourly wage to net monthly salary I do feel I would require more than originally proposed.

Upon meeting with HR manager I was told the role would be a starting salary of £10 per hour and from my industry knowledge I believe the current value for someone with my skillset and experience in a similar standard of venue is around £12-14 per hour. I would be willing to accept a lower salary than what I have been used to previously as do very much like company as a company and what you can provide in terms of a long term career in industry. However, it would be silly for me to take a position on considerably less money than what I know I can earn in many other business of this standing. Is there any way we could come to a more mutually beneficial agreement?

Please do let me know your thoughts.

Kind Regards,
MeandYou

Imo the time to ask about pay is at (or before) an interview. If you're not happy with it, you have room to negotiate if you are offered the job. I'd be very wary of applying for a position where the salary wasn't categorically stated. If you have accepted the job, you should not then have to negotiate salary imo.

However, I would email, not call, stating the facts, and nothing else. And make sure the employer responds to every clearly- stated point in writing. Go in higher in order to reach an agreement somewhere in the middle: eg if you'd be happy with 12, suggest 15 as a starting point.

Good luck to you

Do not write, phone. I withdrew an offer recently because, despite phone calls from myself and HR the chap wanting the job insisted on writing, snail mail, to pose his next question.

Had he spoken to us, then given us time to consider, we would have rung him back, confirmed any changes and confirmed that in writing. But he made things drag out and refused any direct contact.

I have no regrets, the second placed candidate has settled in well - he asked all his questions, including pay rates, over the phone and we got it all sorted easily!

Have you agreed a salary during the interview? You say they told you it was around £10. If so, why didn't you query it then and say all this at the time? All this makes you look a bit flaky and irritating and if it were me, I would be reconsidering the job offer.

It's a bit sort of... ok, I've got the job, that means I'm in such a strong position now, but even though I agreed the salary, now I've got the job, I want more.

Do not send your original email - far too waffly and indecisive because in it you actually more or less say you were told the salary, you accepted it, but have now changed your mind. If you are prepared to have the job offer withdrawn, I would write asking to discuss salary at a time convenient to Manager.

Right, as I understand it the job was advertised as "competitive" and then at interview you were told "around £10/hour" and now they've offered £9?

You need to know your limits - would you accept £9? What's your minimum? Could you get higher paid work elsewhere? Are there other benefits of value to you (eg: pension, bonus, free gym) which increase the value of the hourly rate?

You have to know your parameters before you start negotiating.

Then you call up and say something along the lines of "delighted to be offered the role, but confused by the offer as it is significantly lower than I was expecting. The ad wasn't specific but said it was competitive and the interview lead me to believe it would be nor of £10/hour. I need £x to consider your offer, or I think with my experience £x is a more realistic rate"

Good luck!

Dear Manager,

Thank you for the offer of X role at X company.

I would be delighted to accept, however, the starting salary is somewhat below what I would expect in this sort of role. I am currently on over £14 an hour for a very similar set of responsibilities at Y company, and have been offered a similar amount after an interview earlier this week from another company.

It would be great if you were able to match this as I am confident that I will be able to make a great contribution to your team and I think we will work extremely well together.

I look forward to hearing you thoughts, and I hope that we can discuss this before the new year.

kind regards,

Naan

It does sound to me as though the salary was already negotiated, at interview.

I think this sounds as though it could be very sector-specific. In the industry I work in it would be very bad form to accept the job and salary and then start talking about wanting more.

I think one important bit of information is whether the OP has already handed her notice in and is in a position to negotiate.

(Either way, the email really isn't worded well, imo).

I agree with others, if you've already accepted the job it's a bit late, unless you were given to believe the salary was higher. When I was offered my current job I was already in similar employment on a similar salary. Before accepting I said I couldn't take a pay cut so would need £x. If I'd already accepted I wouldn't be in a position to negotiate.

The time to negotiate salary is absolutely after you've been offered the job. You're in a strong position - you know they want you and you know the industry standard is more AND you have another better offer. All the advice on here telling you not to ask for more is why women are generally paid less than men - we're conditioned to be people pleasing and apologetic.

Just ask for more. They can only say no. They'll probably be expecting you to, and a male candidate almost certainly would.

Absolutely right, Hobbes. There is no other time to do it.

But don't do it by letter, or email, it is too irritating/slow. Male/female, ask for what you are worth, they can only say no and you can make an informed decision... as can they.

I did not withdraw the offer because I was asked to raise the salary, I withdrew it because the 1st man was not giving us an answer in a timely fashion. HR found the relevant rule/reg and we invoked it. We did re-negotiate the salary with candidate 2, the one who spoke to us and allowed us to sort it in a timely manner!

I would suggest emailing them that you are considering the offer and would like to discuss salary terms.

Please can they confirm who to speak to or call to discuss?

The right individual will tgen call back.

You prepare (with all of us) your bullet points. It wouldn't be done solely by email, I'd be very surprised if so. I'd be calling if I was your HR.

Yes to those saying men wouldn't quiver asking. But frankly you know your industry. And worldwide issues are all very well but won't put food on YOUR table. Can you afford the principle...? Hard decision.

I am of the mind though that don't ask never got. Just be graceful if it's rejected.

And the only time to discuss salary is now!

Don't bitch in six months it should've been more. No one will care.

I think it's something that once you've done it once, you might be pleasantly surprised by how easy it is.

The first time I 'negotiated' a salary was for a job I wasn't actually that keen on, so I said I wanted a salary at the very top of the quoted payscale and compressed hours working 4 days a week. They said yes without hesitation. It really changed my mindset when it came to negotiating salary.

Do not be apologetic about asking for more! They advertised the salary as competitive, and it clearly isn't.

You were on £14/hr, why are you now willing to accept less than £12/hr? What is there about this job that is worth over £2/hr to you? I'm asking because you need to counter their belief that they can get away with offering you SO MUCH LESS.

For example, if the job paid less but my transport costs were significantly lower so that I still ended up with the same IYSWIM (plus spent less time travelling) then I can justify to myself taking the lower pay while still making it clear to my new employer that I know my value. And that I will expect raises in the future because I am worth it .

I have once been in the situation where they tried to offer me less. Job was advertised at £x, they offered at interview 85% as my 'experience did not quite match'. I pointed out that I would have to move from a low-cost area of the country to this higher-cost area and I regarded £x as the minimum I would move for. They paid me £x.

Only accept £12/hr if you can justify it to yourself through reduced costs/better conditions/better prospects. Do not accept less than you are worth, because they will then regard that as your true worth and your prospects will decrease accordingly. They will take you at your own valuation!

Just noticed this OP :
"Also the industry average really is 12-14 p/h but this is a big company with lots of employees so it clearly is working ok for them."

So presumably the 'it' that is clearly working is paying less than the industry average?

No, no, no!

Do not presume that they pay less than the industry average! It was HR that tried to get you for the absolute minimum, that's what they do. (It was the HR panel member who tried to negotiate me down too). It's HR's job to convince you that that is all you are worth. It is your job to laugh and tell them what you are worth and to stick to it. This is a negotiation, their first offer is lower than they are prepared to pay.

That is why it is called the job MARKET. They start low, you start high, the price agreed is inbetween.

The timing of the OP is Christmas Day, so it appears the new company has gone on their Christmas break believing the OP has accepted the job, including the salary. So an email or further correspondence at some point either before NY or when they return to work if there is a shut down, is going to be news to them!

I don't think this is a gender thing at all. It is a timing thing. If the OP, at the time of accepting the job offer (which according to the OP she has already done!), had said "I'm delighted that you would like me to come and work for you. Please could we talk about the salary situation, just so I am clear what you are offering per hour"

It seems the OP has gone off after-the-fact and found the industry figures and is now back-pedalling on an offer she may have accepted in haste.

I work in a male dominated industry in a company my parents own & have seen many people employed over the years. The reason I mention it is that it isn't necessarily a male/female thing.

I have seen many men apply for & accept positions at less than industry standard for similar reasons to the OP which is to gain a better work/life balance & better day to day working conditions.

Jobs which are th same but pay higher are so for a reason, in our industry it's usually about working away from home regularly or working overtime/bank holidays at single time.

If my dad received that email from someone, male or female his reaction would be "go & work for them then if they can pay you that" (the OP said the other offer was a worse work/life balance)

If however during interview/offer process someone said, look I really like your company & want to work here but I just can't afford to take that level of salary drop he might try & have a look at the figures.

I asked for more money the last two jobs I was offered. One said no, one said yes. I got £3k more starting salary, just for asking, which took all of 30 seconds.

Big companies offer to pay the least they think they can get away with for the candidate they want. Tell them you think you are worth a bit more.

As someone at work who hires staff, there is some incredibly bad advice being given out here.

Clearly, each industry/level of role will have its norms, but really:

• Not negotiating
• Negotiating salary at interview stage (?!)
• Writing an email (not just calling, at least to kick off discussions)

... all of these are bad ideas.

1981 - I think the key thing is that the point at which the OP received the job offer was the best time to get into salary negotiations - beyond that, it can come across as prevaricating, hesitating, not being assertive enough (IMO).

Agreed, at interview stage, it is unlikely the company will have offered the job yet - although I have known it to be the case that a job offer is made at 2nd interview stage, because they have made up their mind and want the person sufficiently, to secure them there and then.

None of my suggestions in any way suggest not negotiating at all, it is all about doing it at the time when a prospective employer is more receptive to negotiating ... but I will stop now as I know I sound like a broken record

It would be interesting to hear back from the OP to see what she thinks as I recognise there are assumptions being made that may be incorrect.

The time to negotiate salary is absolutely after you've been offered the job

Agreed, but not after you have accepted the job

Daisy you seem determined for me to not bother negotiating at all, I will be doing so why continue to post telling me i've 'missed the boat' etc. Also my industry does not close down during xmas so this wont come as some kind of NY day shock.

I sent an email very similar to what naan drafted for me (thank you!) so now I just wait and see. The outcomes are:

1. I get what I asked for
2. they counter with an offer I would accept
3. they do not counter at all and stick with original offer - I would turn the job down
4. they withdraw the offer

I can only try. Thanks for all the advice everyone.

And no daisy I have not accepted I have been offered it with a proposed start date but I have not accepted!

It's totally normal in my field to have to negotiate salary. (Totally hate doing it.) Usually, you get a job offer at a certain salary. That's the point at which you start negotiating. You need to know the going rate for that role/experience/industry, and you need to work out what is your absolute bottom line - this should take in the hourly rate, but also consider the whole package, such as pension, private health, company car, extra holiday, whatever. Also, money may not be your only reason for taking it - better training, experience you particularly need, hours that suit you - that may all have financial value to you, but isn't something you should make a big deal of in the negotiations, however important it is to you - you're negotiating the financial side, unless you're specifically needing clarification about hours or similar.

It's okay (it's sensible) to prepare a rough script for yourself, so you have some notes there to remind you what points you want to get over and keep you on track.

Start higher than you're actually prepared to accept, and expect there to be two or three calls backwards and forwards; depending on the company, they may be able to authorise things themselves, or they may need HR or a senior manager to sign it off, which at this time of year, might mean it is a frustratingly slow process, as lots of people key people may be away.

As everyone else has pointed out, if you've already accepted it, then you're too late.

OP I think people are confused because in your first post you said "just accepted a job" then says later on "I have not accepted I have been offered it with a proposed start date but I have not accepted!".

People address giving advice based on you having accepted the job.