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AIBU?

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Original poster

to send this to my prospective employer

79 replies

meandyouohyeah · 25/12/2014 22:27

Just accepted a job but trying to negotiate the pay. It's my first time dong this so please steer me in the right direction MN!

or how would you better word it? Thanks in advance!

Dear Manager,

Thank you for taking the time to meet with me on day, I hope you had a lovely Christmas.

Please feel free to forward this email to and/or copy in Senior Manager.

I would be very happy to join business commencing from date as discussed. However re: salary, upon further calculations from the hourly wage to net monthly salary I do feel I would require more than originally proposed.

Upon meeting with HR manager I was told the role would be a starting salary of £10 per hour and from my industry knowledge I believe the current value for someone with my skillset and experience in a similar standard of venue is around £12-14 per hour. I would be willing to accept a lower salary than what I have been used to previously as do very much like company as a company and what you can provide in terms of a long term career in industry. However, it would be silly for me to take a position on considerably less money than what I know I can earn in many other business of this standing. Is there any way we could come to a more mutually beneficial agreement?

Please do let me know your thoughts.

Kind Regards,
MeandYou

OP posts:
bobbyjoe · 25/12/2014 23:06

See, I hate doing stuff like this by phone as you put them on the spot - they might be busy when you call, they might not have time to talk at length, they might not give it the consideration they might have if you'd sent an email where they have more time to mull it over when it suits them, they might feel under pressure to say no straight away.

bobbyjoe · 25/12/2014 23:09

Also with email you won't react instinctively either - if it's a no if you're on the phone then you might take it badly and say well I'm sorry i'm not taking it then whereas with email you can take the bad news, go and make a cup of tea, mull it over and think well actually I'll suck it up as I want the job. It just puts that bit of distance there and also you don't come off the phone thinking what did they say exactly about this that or the other? I can't remember everything said to me in a phone call but if it's in an email it's there to read over again. They might say we'll increase it to that after 6 months or something.

ZombieApocalypse · 25/12/2014 23:10

FGS, don't suggest you'd accept less than the market value. Your email is way too waffly and apologetic. Don't ask them, tell them what you're prepared to accept.

How about this with a bit of social padding either side:

I am happy to accept the position and start on the date suggested. However, the hourly rate suggested was XX, but the market value for someone with my skillset and experience is £12-14 per hour. With what I'd bring to the job, I'd consider an offer around XX.

Mouthfulofquiz · 26/12/2014 06:48

I wouldn't use the word 'silly'... It sounds, well, silly.

purplemunkey · 26/12/2014 07:16

You can't say you're 'happy to accept the job' but then start asking for more money. If you're not happy to accept the job at £9 per hour then you are not happy to accept the job at all. I don't think you can negotiate this be email, you need to actually talk to someone. Why not try a bit of both - send an email, short and to the point e.g. 'thanks for the job offer, I'd be delighted to accept however the proposed pay is lower than expected can we arrange a time to discuss?' Then arrange a phone call or meeting to talk through the rest and negotiate from there.

JellyMould · 26/12/2014 07:35

It is very likely the company will be expecting and prepared for this request BTW. That's how it would be in my industry. It is entirely possible that they have been given a starting offer and a maximum by HR, so don't feel bad. If you prefer to do it by email, keep it factual:
You would like to work for them, but you safe currently being paid X and you are not able to accept such a drop in salary. Then leave it at that.

LadyCybilCrawley · 26/12/2014 07:46

Ok firstly the pp suggestion was perfect

Email " 'thanks for the job offer, I'd be delighted to accept however the proposed pay is lower than expected can we arrange a time to discuss?' "

Do advocate for yourself

Here is what you should not put in your letter (if someone wrote that to me it would really annoy me and
I would likely move onto the next candidate)I '

  1. Don't wish them a happy christmas unless you know they celebrate it - If you want to wish them a happy holiday season put it at end of letter
  1. Never say "feel free to forward to your manager" - it doesn't read well at all and they'll do whatever they want
  1. Don't say "I would require more than? originally proposed" - it sounds like you've changed your mind
daisychain01 · 26/12/2014 08:45

I personally feel you have missed the boat on this one.

You cant feasibly send this prospective employer a letter quibbling about your hourly rate when you have already accepted the position. They would be within their rights to withdraw their offer (sorry to say, but I would if I was the recruiting manager).

The time to talk salary is when you are in the interview room, by telling them your current salary. There is no harm in saying (probably at the second interview) how keen you are on the role, how much you feel you can offer the company and drawing their attention to your current salary and how you are hoping for x level in your next position. Then leave them to deliberate on how much they want to secure you! It isn't like dating, you need to be upfront, clear about your expectations and don't leave them guessing!

Your letter unfortunately gives them the impression you are indecisive, which gives them the opportunity to make mincemeat of you.

I hope this doesn't sound harsh, it's just that it's probably better to hear it here than getting a shock from them!

daisychain01 · 26/12/2014 08:51

Also just to mention, the likelihood is that their offer reflects your "worth" to them, if they were keen not to lose you their offer would already reflect that.

So the statement "I would require more than was originally proposed" will be their get out of jail free card to say to themselves that you would be demotivated on your starting salary so would have to give the job to someone else.

plantsitter · 26/12/2014 08:52

if it's a large company they will have processes for pay negotiation and won't withdraw their offer because they think you're cheeky or what have you (nor should anyone imo).

my friend recently negotiated on salary and said it was so easy she wished she'd asked for more! I think a short email saying 'this is less than the industry standard of ££ and I would be taking a significant pay cut. Could we arrange a time to discuss? '.

daisychain01 · 26/12/2014 09:00

I would prefer to email as I would probably get a bit crumbly on the phone and be talked round

If I were you, maybe think about some negotiations and assertiveness skills training so you can stand your ground, in these types of situations without feeling the need to please people.

WidowWadman · 26/12/2014 09:02

I'm quite surprised at people suggesting that they'd withdraw the offer if the offeree dared to negotiate. Surely negotiation is normal and you won't necessarily have an equally suitable runner up to move on to? Agree that the email is too apologetic.

daisychain01 · 26/12/2014 09:02

Processes for pay negotiation surely apply to existing employees, not new recruits.

They are within their rights to play hardball as much as they like outside an employment contract.

FunkyBoldRibena · 26/12/2014 09:03

Never say "feel free to forward to your manager" - it doesn't read well at all and they'll do whatever they want

'Feel free to forward this to your manager' - to me it reads 'I know you aren't authorised to discuss this but I don't know the email address of the person who is'. If I got that email I'd probably just withdraw the offer.

You can't negotiate pay by email! If you think you are worth the pay you are requesting then say so.

daisychain01 · 26/12/2014 09:10

It depends how much the OP is willing to risk pushing for more pay.

Don't forget she has already accepted the role. So she is very much on the back foot at the moment.

All I'm saying is that negotiation is all about good timing and also the compelling argument for why they should give her more. I don't think she is giving them reason why paying her more benefits their company, when she has already accepted at the original salary. And now, by saying she isn't happy, means they could feel reluctant to recruit.

I may be wrong, I don't have a crystal ball, but I have experience in negotiating.

feelingunsupported · 26/12/2014 09:14

Congratulations on the new job! didn't like your email though, sorry.

Greeting and very short blah blah

Id like to negotiate my starting salary and would like xx, which is in line with industry average, appropriare to my skill set and very close to another offer I received recently.

Regards blah blah blah

purplemunkey · 26/12/2014 09:15

I agree with daisy that you may have missed the boat. Negotiating pay is fine, and usually expected, but BEFORE you accept the offer. Once you've accepted you've accepted as offered. But, it's worth a go... especially if you plan on ultimately rejecting the job based on current pay.

MidniteScribbler · 26/12/2014 09:17

I'm quite surprised at people suggesting that they'd withdraw the offer if the offeree dared to negotiate.

Think of it like buying something online. Someone asks if you will sell it for a lower price. You then get to accept or decline. But if someone agrees to buy it, then when they get to your front door and start to demand a lower price, then they are doing the wrong thing. The OP has accepted the job, at the offered price. The time to bring it up was during the interview process, not after she has accepted the role.

Vivacia · 26/12/2014 09:23

OP Have you already accepted the job and salary?

Purplepoodle · 26/12/2014 09:30

I would go in with a short email of something like 'ideally I'm looking for £14 an hour but I'm willing to negotiate'

KentExpecting · 26/12/2014 09:31

Totally fine to negotiate - in many industries that's standard and it would be seen as strange if you didn't at least try. It shows that you are assertive and confident in yourself. Never a bad thing!

Gaia81 · 26/12/2014 09:32

If OP accepted verbally and has just got paper work then still fine to negotiate imo.

daisychain01 · 26/12/2014 09:33

Vivacia, it would appear from the OPs first sentence, they have accepted the job but now negotiating the salary. To my way of thinking "accepting the job" = accepting role responsibilities and salary.

The OP has been given the offer rate by the HR manager and the draft letter in the OP is now trying to negotiate upwards from the starting salary offered.

That seems to be the wrong order of things....

Albadross · 26/12/2014 09:33

If I were in your situation I would email - I think written records are important, especially when it's about something as important as pay.

I also agree that if they kept changing the pay offered, then you still have a window of negotiation. Be direct in your email though.

This reminds of me a really weird job I went for (as a freelance violinist) and when I asked the guy offering the job what the pay was, he very rudely told me I should never ask before an audition, (which was going to cost me time and money) because he 'didn't know if I was any good yet'. He even asked me if I'd expect to know the salary of any job before applying Shock

The whole deal was sort of 'this is a really famous artist so you should be falling over yourself to get the gig'. Needless to say I felt very glad I had asked otherwise I may never have known it was a crock.

If you don't ask, you don't get - but ask in a way that makes you sound very sure that what you're asking for is perfectly reasonable, and don't be in the slightest bit apologetic.

TheChandler · 26/12/2014 09:37

I think your letter is good, but I would also tend to phone. I can't see any problem with this, if the rate is that low, what is the point in working for them? You are only going to spend your whole time there looking for a better paid job anyway.

I did similar a few years back, but was offered two jobs. I wrote to one saying the other had offered me a better rate so I was taking that, the first one upped their offer, the second couldn't match it, so I went for the first one. They seemed to think this was perfectly normal.