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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

Quick check - foreign MIL talking in English, does this come across as racist?

60 replies

20109NC · 21/12/2014 17:03

Have NC and about to go downstairs so won't be back for an hour or so.

MIL (white) here (UK), speaks very little English. Mostly we visit her abroad. FIL died five years ago and since then she goes on regular holidays to Kenya with similarly aged ladies (70s) - the other women go there explicitly for sex tourism. We think probably naively MIL just enjoys the attention, she pays various 'English teachers' to sit with her all day, tell her how good her English is and she sends them regular gifts when she goes home (she is wealthy) and enjoys showing her friends many emails from them telling her how much they love her and miss her etc. To me this is akin to Western men going to Thailand or similar for sex, I find it deeply exploitative and wrong.

She will periodically say, in a very loud voice (I had totally forgotten this before yesterday) "I love black men!!" In her home country, few understand, but she saw a group of black men last night (we were out for drinks, fortunately walking down the street), pointed at them, burst out cackling and shouted really loudly, "I LOVE BLACK MEN!!!" Because we know the context (of her holidays), we both found it cringy and told her that in English you don't really say that... but that's not exactly true. She didn't really understand so I think she will say it again.

If we told her it sounded racist in English she would be horrified and not say it, she doesn't know enough English to know whether or not that is true.

Honestly, if you heard someone shout this in the street, does it sound racist in any way or is it just because we know about the sex tourism that it sits uncomfortably with us? I think it comes across as pervy at the very least. She is here for two weeks so before all our neighbours start hating us I wanted to check. Last time we stayed with her for three days and she said it about four times. She loves talking about her holidays and the people she meets so it comes up a lot.

OP posts:

Marylou2 · 21/12/2014 17:57

Poor you and your DH OP.Your MILs behaviour is hugely inappropriate. Next time she behaves in this way I'd just tell her that men in this country, black or white, don't need her money. Perhaps it might bring it home to her why these men shower her with attention abroad.

drbonnieblossman · 21/12/2014 18:02

not racist.

She's an older lady enjoying her life and clearly from the shouting, she loves black men so, you know, her life, her choices. There are aspects of everyone's' lives which may not appeal to others and granted if it's a parent, as is the case with your DH, it may cause him discomfort but realistically there's nothing he can do and it's not strictly his business. And she's staying for two weeks, that's all.

Original poster

20109NC · 21/12/2014 18:10

I would have been embarrassed.

I was fucking mortified. Shoved my head down, grabbed her arm and dragged her away whilst muttering "We don't say that in English!" DH backed me up but she really didn't understand. I will just tell her it's racist and be done with it - she really won't understand any attempts to tell her it's sexist or whatever. If she understood those arguments she wouldn't be going on those holidays with her friends in the first place - whether or not she actually has sex she certainly wouldn't be supporting her friends' behaviour, which she does knowing full well that's what they do.

Hatespiders Thanks :) DH speaks her language and I do a bit but she doesn't listen to him.

As an aside she has decided our windows are filthy and has already bought cloths and a window scraper. They are sat on the table in her room. DH tells me that she decided whilst they were out at the supermarket that tomorrow she and I will clean the windows top to bottom. Not happening.

Shalli No, she has always been like this. All her friends and family decided long ago that she either has some form of mental illness (which she refuses to see and refuses to get help for - everyone else is crazy) or she is just like that, which is a possibility. Her sisters are fine, in fact lovely, I wish they were my MIL instead of my AuntIL (same upbringing).

OP posts:

Evelight · 21/12/2014 18:18

It's just plain rude. I mean, in her own country, is it acceptable to walk down the street at night yelling things at passers-by, regardless of race?

I did not know this about Gambia. I am very distantly acquainted with a professional woman past the prime of youth, who very suddenly divorced her husband of umpteen years (and father of their two teenaged children) and re-married a much younger Gambian man. After a lot of immigration hassle, she was able to -just recently- bring him to the country. Lots of gossip for us, yay! but somehow this angle made me puke in my mouth a bit.

krustyem · 21/12/2014 18:23

She's in her 70's and she loves black men. Fair enough. I don't think it's racist to love black men or white men or Chinese men......i think we look into thing's too much nowadays, looking for something to be inappropriate or an insult.

ExtraVolume · 21/12/2014 18:29

It is racist to judge someone primarily on their race, whether your judgement is positive or negative.

I agree with the poster who said it isn't the same as male sex tourism because of the power difference. Yes she is rich and western but they are also men which gives them a degree of freedom (biological, social etc) that female sex workers don't have.

Original poster

20109NC · 21/12/2014 18:34

It's just plain rude. I mean, in her own country, is it acceptable to walk down the street at night yelling things at passers-by, regardless of race?

Not unless you're a teenager and off your face. But she yells things in her own country as well - once stood outside a friend's apartment block in the centre of town shouting her name (third floor) until she came to a window, so that she could show off 'my son and his girlfriend' (it was my first visit to her). By the time her friend came to the window everyone was watching and I was no longer there - I had ducked around the corner and was studiously reading a tourist information board pretending I didn't know her. After about a minute then-DP joined me

OP posts:

PhaedraIsMyName · 21/12/2014 18:47

What utter hypocrisy. Sex tourism is wrong. Full stop- not "just a little bit wrong" because it's poor men being exploited.

So far as the balance of power it's all in the hands of these rich , elderly white women.

mynewpassion · 21/12/2014 18:52

Again she's embarrassing not a racist in this instance.

Sex trade in Kenya is the same as sex trade in Thailand. Exploiting poor people for sex.

cailindana · 21/12/2014 18:53

Does it matter whether it's racist or not? It's just rude, and not acceptable in our culture so she should stop.

Golferman · 21/12/2014 18:55

Can't see it being racist lots of women fancy white men. My wife is really wanting us to swing with one so have a threesome lined up next week as part of her Xmas present

SandorClegane · 21/12/2014 19:05

Where's the puking emoticon?

peasandlove · 21/12/2014 19:09

We had a holiday in Tobago a few years ago and there were many middle aged women on that flight going there for the same reason. Seems it's everywhere

LonnyVonnyWilsonFrickett · 21/12/2014 19:16

It's racist IMO because any generalised comment based on the colour of someone's skin is racist stereotyping. But even if I'm wrong, if you think 'that's racist' will work and shut her up, then of course that's the route you need to go down.

fanjoforthemammaries7850 · 21/12/2014 19:20

Golferman and then you woke up

Serendipity30 · 21/12/2014 19:29

Its not exceptable at all imagine a man loudly shouting and pointing out ' I love White women'. I finding it cringe worthy, Black men are not sex objects for her pleasure.

HeraldAngelSinging · 21/12/2014 19:34

Oh dear. Where can I go on holiday alone without this threat problem?

Bulbasaur · 21/12/2014 19:40

Women go to Kenya for sex tourism? Never heard of this before.

If I heard someone randomly shouting "I love black men!" I would not find it racist. So from a stranger on the street perspective, she's not being racist.

But knowing the back story, it's definitely cringe worthy. She not looking at black men as anything more than fetish objects. I'm not sure if it's racist, but is certainly not a good attitude to have towards a group of people.

usualsuspect333 · 21/12/2014 19:41

Haha at Fanjo

Mulderandskully · 21/12/2014 19:42

I'm guessing MIL is from a bit of a "colonial" background and maybe doesn't mix with other races in her home country.

Whilst I agree that having a preference for one race or another in looks, for your relationships, isn't racist,* waking down the street shouting anything including the words "black men" is and if she's carries on she could find herself in problems, frankly.

*assuming it's an innocent attraction to say, brown skin, or Afro hair, rather than sex tourism as is here

usualsuspect333 · 21/12/2014 19:43

She shouldn't be shouting at anyone in the street, OP.

Original poster

20109NC · 21/12/2014 19:51

Mulder Yes, from Eastern Europe so a very, very white homogeneous area. DH is currently hiding in the kitchen under pretence of baking whilst she sits in front of the TV. Coward. Not that I've just had a half hour long phone call with my DM about absolutely nothing for the same reason.

OP posts:

YellowYoYoYam · 21/12/2014 19:55

It's rude to shout things at strangers in the street. Tell her it's not acceptable in this country.

This thread has been an eye opener for me.

Hatespiders · 21/12/2014 20:00

Evelight, there were some couples on the First Choice plane to Banjul, going on package holidays not involving sex tourism. But there were so many cackling middle-aged women talking very loudly about what they intended to do with 'black men' and how excellent these men were at sex, I was disgusted. I travelled this route fairly often. Leaving the airport (I travelled alone for many years) I needed to find a bush taxi and was always accosted by several men who thought I was looking for sex. It was upsetting. And I know a man who has done the same thing in Kenya. He and his mate go over there to pick up black women. It's all due to terrible poverty, the same problem the world over. It's a way to make money. Actually, I'm not sure who is exploiting whom. Some of these women fall in love and get stung badly financially.
I didn't meet my Ivorian dh this way I hasten to add!

Your mil sounds weird op. I think the best way is to warn her that she could be taken before a magistrate for racially insulting behaviour or something similar. If she was scared she might stop doing it.

Dipankrispaneven · 21/12/2014 20:02

Suppose a white man went round shouting "I love Thai women" when he saw a group of oriental-looking women. I think we would take the view that it is extremely demeaning to them, objectifying them as objects and not as people. So yes, I think it's racist.

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