Aibu to be getting fed up with NHS

[naty1]

Im pg and when making booking appt with mw i said can i make it sooner than 9wks (it was less than 6wks at the time) as i could see 12 weeks would fall over Xmas. Mw says dont worry theyre still open most of the time and they had no earlier booking appts.
So had booking this week and got NT scan date letter today.
For 14+1 :( :(
As its ivf im pretty certain of date but that doesnt mean their estimate of 14+1 always works for everyone as the baby could easily be a day at least bigger making it a big waste of time.
I see they are going to be busy over xmas but dont think its acceptable. Its over a month away so they must be able to plan their appointments and its not like im delayed from 12 weeks by 3 days to 12+3 but over2 weeks later.
Though i guess thinking about it they are probably short staffed from now till new year

As its the weekend i cant call or do anything but be upset, as i can see them having any appts to change to. They are likely to be even later. I wish we could be involved in choosing appt rather than - you are given it

I just feel the 'service' im getting from nhs has been quite poor.
(DC1 my nt scan magically became only a pointless dating (due to ivf) due to paperwork error though to their credit they squeezed a nt scan in later that week)

But your appointment is within the nhs recommended dates, ok at the edge but still in that period. Unfortunately Christmas and the likes do get in the way of appointment timings. DS 8 week consultant appointment has ended up being 10 weeks simply because that was the first appointment due to Christmas. Frustrating but they can hardly make appointments appear where there are none!

I just think that this hype and worry over screening for one thing is daft.

So you might pick up this one condition early enough to abort. But there are thousands of other conditions and birth complications you can't screen or prepare for. So your £10k baby might still not be perfect.

And the overiding thought then is that people live long and happy lives with these conditions. They might be different lives to yours, and the definition of 'happy' might vary from yours (and even the definition of 'long').

In the grand scheme of things, why is this one test (the outcome of which can be determined at a later date in different ways) bothering you so much?

YABU.

I couldn't have the combined test despite wanting it. I was 10+5 and they don't offer rescreening.

I'm over 35 so potentially higher risk too.

However they did do the lower accuracy blood test - the quadruple, which came back very low risk. So its not like they didn't look for it. If that had come back high risk they would have done further investigations.

And they did do a 20 week scan, which potentially would have picked up problems too.

So what it comes down to, is you want a particular test. The nuchal test isn't the most accurate available anyway, so I don't get why you aren't demanding the harmony test on the NHS from the way you are stamping your feet.

If you want that degree of piece of mind now, go private. Forget the nuchal completely.

I admit at the time I was very upset about it all, but actually I don't think it was very fair of it as they did test. It was more about my anxieties and desperation for a healthy pregnancy. The difference between accuracy of one test and the other, mean the chances of missing something are there but they are still small.

In the end I viewed it like this; you can try and reduce and find every potential problem in life to the nth degree. But is it necessarily going to make things 'better' in the long run.

Doesn't matter if nhs staff have children, staffing is as normal except for bank hols. You're still talking about formal complaint, etc and I do understand why you're unhappy but seriously you've jumped a step. You just need to phone them tomorrow, explain your concerns and ask if it's possible to bring forward. At the moment you're angry with the system but the system doesn't even know that you feel there's a problem. I would imagine that you wouldn't raise a formal complaint with a private company before seeing if they could solve the issue first. This is the same. Hope you get the outcome you want.

Like other posters I'm getting annoyed with having to accept a shit service. I understand that the NHS is under strain but that is not my fault. I pay tax, it's not a free service and the quality of care is getting shocking here. Too many mistakes being made etc. I for one won't put up and shut up like many think I should. Yes it's easy to criticize the NHS but many of us can't afford to go private.

I think some people are being slightly unfair. The OP is clearly stressed and worried that everything is OK with her baby - understandably so as she has obviously had a tough time falling pregnant in the first place. After spending 10k on IVF treatment I can see why the OP does not want to go private.

OP yanbu in feeling disappointed that you can't get a scan earlier. Perhaps phone up and explain your situation (my apologies if you have already done this).

I wish you all the best for a happy, healthy pregnancy.

I know we 'pay' for the NHS through national insurance & taxes, but on the whole most of us use more than we pay for. Or at the very least we make our contributions during our earning years and not in our later years when we inevitably use the service more.

In countries where healthcare is private/insurance based, you're expected to pay there and then. Often the insurance doesn't cover everything. So if you don't work, you can't pay for treatment. If you work and pay but your insurance won't cover procedures (and often you won't know this till after the event) you can end up bankrupt and in serious debt.

We (a group I run) support people in the US whose insurance won't pay for the basic day-to-day medication they need to prevent brain damage. That's if they've got insurance. Because if they can't get access to the medication the condition makes it impossible to work at all. And they're into a vicious circle.

This is one condition you can't test for.

In the UK people with his condition can't get the best medication that some in the U.S. have access to. But they are screened at birth and medication is available on prescription for life.

So yes, the NHS is strained, and not it's not ideal. But being unreasonable at the point of access isn't going to change anything. You need to go away and read the manifestos of the political parties carefully, vote in the next election, write to your MP, write and sign petitions. But don't take it out on the poor people who are just doing the best they can in shit circumstances themselves.

redtooth. It is a little different though as i assume you just didnt know your dates (or again were measured different to what you knew was right).
If it was suspected it was too early you could have tried to move it. Or opted for a later date just in case. It does highlight that thry should be aiming for dates in the middle for just such an instance. Though with implantation spotting it would be impossible to get it right.

Wheras they know my dates and have put it right at the limit.

Of course i accept baby may be imperfect, really irrelevant as what would be the point in testing if everyone wanted a DS baby, thought they could cope. I already potentially have increased risk of other birth defects /cancer etc/ infertility in my DC, i just dont want to know or be able to know about something serious but for whatever reason not know.

As it happens its male infertility, could happen to any of you at any time, secondary infertility even.
Its not like ive waited yrs to have kids putting myself at higher risk, not that that is an issue if so but its not the case. When i started ttc i was 29. And as i said the issue was not my age anyway.

No matter consultants generally take an interest in ivf pg due to increased risks so that may well make a difference.

Its true they dont know theres an issue, but surely it shouldnt be good practice to offer last possible day.

Reading about it there is a reduction in ability to get the measurement due to baby being in wrong position after 14 weeks.

I just dont need the stress of a false positive result and being pressured into an amnio.

I presume you got your IVF on the NHS?

Why would you presume that bigbluestars, when the OP said it cost her £10k?

Naty - no refund on Harmony if it does not work, no. Part of cost is a scan, then get two chances at blood test. My first blood test came back inconclusive, so another day off work and another expensive and long trip to London for second blood test. If first blood test fails then second one has only a 50% chance of working.
You can have a partial refund if you refuse second blood test but then have paid a lot of money for a scan. For me it was a lot of travel, holiday off work for dh and stress.
If you live near a place that does Harmony much easier.

Also some NHS London hospitals for eg offer it free for people with much better risk rating than me as it is on trial. Sadly not where I live.

Failure rate of harmony is about 3-5% though.

I had my so called 13 week scan on time but part of me wishes I had not, as all it has done has caused me stress and given no answers. Personally we would not terminate for DS but there is also T13 and T18 to consider which are devastating to discover. The London Prof we saw said knowing a baby has issues means can be referred to right people such as Cardiologist etc and make sure give birth in place that can manage potential issues - which is a consideration for us.

But sadly Christmas and new year seems to be a time when many staff take annual leave and therefore many routine appointments are RE-scheduled!

Think London clinics like FMC offer just the dating and NT without expensive harmony packages.

Actually I did know my dates, and did know it was going to be too soon. (They dated the scan to within a day of what I expected). When we were given the date we were told that they couldn't move it as we did ask. It was either that date or one after 14 weeks.

Agree with pp that you do have to keep on top of things these days. OP, do call them and give them the dates when the scan should happen and ask if anything can be found at all.

In my last pregnancy my MW "lost" my referral to the consultant 3 times. It was only when I spent an hour on the phone to several people, being very firm, that an appointment suddenly materialised.

Other highlights included getting my DS bloods results at 38 weeks (no NT offered, went private); hospital telling GP that baby had been born 6 weeks after his a real DOB; being given the wrong date and time for an emergency scan for heavy bleeding

All these could have been avoided easily... the fact that the NHS is "free" doesn't mean that it's OK to provide a bad service. I don't recall all these mistakes and "take it or leave it" attitude during my first pregnancy 5 years ago .

I recently tried to access counselling on the NHS. GP said they could not refer me as a primary care patient as I have bipolar and I could not be referred as a secondary care patient as I have been discharged from psychiatrist. So I asked to be referred back to a psychiatrist so I could then access services and was told I am not ill enough. So now I pay private which is very expensive as I am not on a great income. Really pisses me off, especially considering it was illegal shifts I was working as a doctor which caused the bloody bipolar in the first place.

Just for some understanding about the nhs this time of year. I work at a small hospital. We get on average 5 to 15 ambulances coming to us a day. Last week we averaged 51 a day. Some of these patients will need scans for various medical needs.

Mother - I noticed last night that a and e was even busier than normal when in with my son and the local ambulance service have said they have had an unprecedented amount of calls recently. I wonder if there are even more nasty bugs doing the rounds at the moment or something? Either way it does highlight the amount of pressure on an already stretched system

I bloody love the NHS they have saved my childs life more than once I. eternally thankfull for it.

Me too running. I had fortnightly scans for high risk pg and dtd1 was resuscitated at birth.
Currently I have a friend who has a baby who has so far had 6 brain ops and is 5 months old, including 2 air ambulance transfers across the country to the one specialist.
Op needs to call tomorrow and see if she can move app. For most of us it wouldn't be an issue. Ds test seems inconclusive and causes unnecessary worry imho after seeing a couple worry through their whole pg when given a 1 in 3 chance of ds - the baby had no issues at all and certainly no ds. Every dc comes with challenges. Even those without ds. Anyway, nhs has given a date so you can call and rearrange... or tell gp you are spotting and get an emergency scan a week earlier. Hospital staff aren't deliberately trying to upset you. Early scans are very inaccurate (6 week scan showed my sac was empty and they feared it was ectopic... 10 days later new scan showed twins! ).

Mother i was thinking - not at this hospital its too large they would gave separate machines but then realise that maybe the same sonographer or pg people coming in for a scan so perhaps.

Though i would say when i fell on the stairs last pg i went to a normal hospital and a&e said they couldnt scan to see if all ok. We went to the booking in hospital and i think had a heart trace (still no scan) we were there so long. They couldnt decide if i could have anti D , even though it was due the following week anyway so no harm done.

Redtooth thats crazy i assumed you couldnt have meant that. Did they at least acknowledge in original letter that it wouldnt be within the dates? Or wait to see if you noticed. As surely the admin person made a mistake booking you too early and so an effort should have been made to squeeze it in as no fault of yours.

Ive been reading ivf makes the bloods off, so if i have to go again for bloods at 16 (i think) it is likely to show high risk. (I think it actually said that test shouldnt be used.

Sorry to hear about all of you with bad experiences i agree it shouldnt just be 'oh well it happens' but how can we ensure some other poor person doesnt have the same thing happen.

The argument about ivf costing loads and affecting budgets is a bit silly. Cost divided by 2 parents over their life. Its a defect/illness/to be treated like anything else. Lots of pct only do 1 round. So many other conditions would cost more plus the cost of antiD for all the childless women. It could happen to you - at any age. Undescended testicles, carrier of CF so missing vas deferens, hormone issues, thyroid issues as well as lifestyle causes.
Its not all age and obesity. In fact not the cause of any of the couples i know.
My conditions (possibly caused by passive smoking in womb and from birth) asthma, hypothyroidism, pcos) will likely cost more than an ivf treatment. As do lots of other self induced smoking, drinking, obesity issues.
So i dont think you will find those receiving ivf feeling guilty or that it would mean they have to be everlastingly grateful to nhs and never complain as it seems almost everyone has habits that will lead to needing treatment so should everyone feel like this?
It will be the above self induced issues which waste of the system will cause its collapse. Plus all the errors.

But mother it wouldnt be inaccurate at 12 w. The ideal dating scan and nt scan time.
Ive had an early scan. Its not inaccurate if you know the dates. +/- 4 days or so at most and they wait until 7w as they know when to do it to avoid causing concerns.
But a non ivf person will often have the dates wrong and so go in and get scared because they cant find anything

A scan for bleeding would be useless
No nt measurement
No blood test
Read the thread or about NT scans.
I would be having the dating scan anyway (which i dont need) no pt seeing baby again.

Yes im going to call tomorrow

I agree though in complicated- high risk areas the performance is so much better probably the consultant care.

Ok, so you've had an appointment through that you hope to change as it's too near the threshold for NT accuracy.

No need for the drama & NHS bashing.

It's probably only affected by the main days over Christmas, Christmas Day, Boxing Day and New Years day. Everything will run as normal over the other days. Children's school holidays shouldn't affect it, as most of us aren't aklowed any annual leave over Christmas, so all staff are around. The birth rate is rising rapidly, so the scan departments everywhere are just full of lots of appointments.

Don't worry the earliest date I could get for my birth options clinic appointment (to discuss VBAC vs elective section) was after my due date with DD2.

All will work out in the end. Ring the appointments number on the form and as if your date can be changed, if you are happy to go on an unpopular day - ie Christmas Eve you may well get another slot. Good luck and happy pregnancy.

I found anything pre and post natal was positively shit in my hospital so Yanbu