to ask how you, as a parent, feel about school shows?

[manicinsomniac]

I'm a performing arts teacher. I put on a wide range of shows every year, from informal class plays where they take their scripts on stage to a full scale musical with thousands of pounds worth of hired set and technical equipment.

Today, I have had two extremely vocal complaints.

One regarded the quality of some class plays performed earlier in the week. The parent felt that it was a long evening of very low quality drama that was hard to sit through. These particular shows followed a criteria of having a reasonable number of lines for every child and were cast by me saying 'put your hand up if you want a big part' etc. Everyone got the size of part they wanted. And yes, some of them were eye wateringly bad. But they were having fun, getting involved and learning.

The second complaint was about the big school musical and concerned a child in their last year of school not having a speaking part and never having had one in the past either (in the big musical that is. The child has had parts in smaller shows). The parent complained that it is always the same group of children in the big parts and that others would do just as well if they got the chance. Anyone who auditions for this show can be in it but I am very selective over the named roles. And yes, it is often the same children - because there are a good number of very talented children.

I feel like I can't win. I put everything into both types of shows and the inclusive ones get slated for being poor quality and the very competitive, high quality gets slated for not being inclusive enough!!!

What would you prefer to see as a parent -
a lower quality show that shares the parts around
or
a higher quality show that chooses the best for the parts?

Do you value and enjoy the show itself or just want to see you child on the stage?

Sounds like the consensus is that primary should be inclusive and secondary should be selective.

Problem for me is that I'm Year 5 to 8!

I think it is fine to give lead parts to the most talented by the time they reach year 5. I don't see it as being any different as being selected for the football team or the dance troupe or the school choir or the school orchestra.

DS is 8 so we have limited experience.

My major concern with last year's summer production was that it seemed to take up far too much school time.

We got a letter though before even half term ( about 8 weeks before the production) saying that the teachers couldn't set homework as they were too busy with the show and could we ensure that our children didsome reading and practiced their maths . I should have complained at this point ( it's a private school) but to be honest I'm unconvinced by the value of homework anyway so I wasn't that bothered.

Then the children started complaining that they weren't able to do PE as this was being used for rehearsals 9 this was about 6 weeks before the production. Again I'm angry at myself for not going in to say something - DS is not a small child and a) needs the activity and b) really enjoys PE.

The actual production itself was good - there were about 6 children with major speaking parts ( 10+ lines) and most of the rest did one song in batches. The production lasted over an hour which seemed excessively long for a P3 performance. To be honest I didn't want or expect such a long professional production - surely at that at age it's about joining in and having fun, not putting on a West End quality performance.

This terms Christmas concert has not been so bad although DS has had to use up many lunch times practicing his recorder rather than being out playing on the astro pitch. They were "strongly encouraged" to join choir, but again that was at lunch time so I let him choose between choir and recorder group.

I get that they learn lots from having a school production and that not all children can have/want major parts. My concern is that in our school there seems to be excessive focus on these at the expense of the curriculum and/or DCs getting exercise or just having down time from lessons. I need to go in and have a discussion about it, but can't really see the point as I don't think it will change anything.

Year 5 is about 9-10 years old, yes?

That's old enough to stop getting patted on the head and given a participation trophy for trying their best. They can handle competition at this age, and it sounds like you give smaller plays during the year that gives everyone a chance. That's plenty fair.

I have a dd 17 who does drama for gcse and now A level, so we have sat through a number of school shows recently. My ds also did backstage from yr 7.

I agree that primary should be more inclusion and not the same children getting the main parts. However recently attended a Shakespeare for Schools night which had two primaries and two 6th forms. The primaries did short Macbeth and Midsummer Nights Dream and were excellent.
Macbeth was played by two children which was a little confusing for a minute but we got used to it.

In secondary it has been the same students year after year in the shows. Some of them are a bit over rated and are not that good and still seem to get the main parts but the big musicals have been fairly good. The trouble was they were quite cute when they were year 7 and 8 and were still playing on that in yr 10.
However the school puts all the devised pieces on the same night. It is a very long night for everyone and does get a bit samey with all the same students playing virtually the same part as previously. The obligatory ghost story which was the same plot as last time etc. Thankfully school have decided to now split them up so only two plays instead of 4 or 5.

Although ime the west end child performers usually aren't in school productions - when they're on a show anyway
One of DDs' friends has been in all the big West End shows ie Matilda and Sound of Music etc and has never been in school productions. However two were involved in West End Kids were in all the school shows.

Primary school - should be inclusive
Secondary - most able children given the main parts - after all, Secondary sports teams are based on ability, why should drama be any different

West End Kids is training through isn't it - so tends to be on out of school times? And so presumably not clash too much with school. Ds2 auditioned for his school musical this year, then found out he'd been cast in a tour - so has had to drop out. (Luckily it was before school musical parts were assigned). Although he's back at school full time by the time the show is on, he'd miss far too many rehearsals - as he's missing a lot of school - and you have to commit to all rehearsals to take part (which is completely fair enough imo). Presumably school sport is the same - you have to show a certain amount of commitment. That's another useful life skill that can be taught via school productions (and sport or whatever - anything teamy - you have to turn up and put in the hard slog bit as well).

Actually, Manic, I think your mix sounds just fine. Perhaps it's the way the shows are publicized that needs tweaking -- 'come and see some of the things we've been doing in drama' for the first type of show, rather than advertising it as a show?

Just, please, don't do what DS's school has inflicted on us this term -- sending out a rehearsal schedule, asking everyone to be sure they could make every rehearsal and then changing them and getting grumpy when children now have other commitments.

I would much prefer it if there was no performance at all. Gifted children can go to stage school, etc. I truly do not see the point of this torture.

windchime stage school is expensive, and to be honest she doesnt like doing all the "jazz hands" type performances they seem to turn out. She gets a lot out of drama at school and she doesnt have the time or the money to pay for it.

What you did sounds right. In the inclusive show, late bloomers get to show they can do it, everyone can have fun and shine. In the other, it is all about skill and performance. Not everyone can be good at everything. It is important that children get a chance to find out what they are good at, and what they enjoy but don't excel in. That happens in Primary school.

Beyond KS2 I think children need to learn that hard work, commitment and a bit of natural skill gets them onto the 'A' team. That the 'B' team isn't failure, just more relaxed! In real life they will have to know their strengths and weaknesses, pick GCSEs then later jobs that play to those, and compete with many many other candidates for jobs and promotions. Coming out of school thinking everyone has to be given a chance however hard they work or however talented they are (or not), would be doing them a great disservice.

Funnily enough 3 parents have told me today how much they enjoyed the class plays - hope this wasn't too identifiable! ;)

Kitties - yes, perhaps you're right re the show thing. I do call them workshop performances and stress that they have had no rehearsal outside of drama lessons until the dress rehearsal but maybe I should take the performance thing out altogether.

I'm a performing arts teacher too and I have always cast the shows by age. The oldest kids get the big parts. That way, at some point all of the pupils have been in the chorus and worked their way up. One of my year 7 pupils is a working actor. He has just returned from a tour of a musical in the west end. However, he too was cast as a member of the chorus in the show. He is talented beyond belief, but must 'pay his dues' as the others have. He loved it. I have had a few pupils here and there tell me that they are not going to do a show if they don't get a main part. I give then all the same message; the school show isn't a platform for showing off. It is an opportunity to work as an ensemble, meet new friends, learn from others and enjoy themselves. If the pupil chooses not to participate then that is up to them. I'm not sure why you did a showcase of performances that were not very good. Parents love their kids but they don't want to see them for the sake of seeing them. The showcase should show them at their best. I'm sorry you have had complaints, I do know how hard you will have worked and you must feel a bit meh. If you can, get involved in a forum for perf arts teachers and look at what other people do. It might inspire you so that a positive can come from the negative.

I think if there are 2 types of shows you are doing the right thing. Having a show where all participants are involved regardless of talent is great to allow all kids exposure and have fun and there is also a need for productions where the more talented individuals get a chance to develop their skills and showcase talents. Modern schooling wants everyone to get treated on an equal par and rewarded regardless of skill level..Fact is real life doesn't work that way.. Why should the kids with genuine talent in performing get cast aside, doesn't really teach that hard work and talent gets you anywhere. As for the parents complaining, this will always be the case, you cannot keep everyone happy no matter what you do. Keep up the good work :)

I'd rather the really bad children were only given small parts.
At secondary level, I'd rather the good children were given the good parts. You wouldn't expect a child who's rubbish at football to be in the first 11. Having said that, if someone's potentially good, but less experienced, then give them a chance. Stretch children who have potential, but don't make parents sit through a show in which the children who are really bad are on the stage for a long time.

Oh dear, you wont like my answer. If your priority is your production and getting good reviews then you are on the right track as long as you don't care about damaging a child's confidence; trust in teachers and education experience. My daughter is completely turned off sport and drama - she finds these subjects have teachers who only want what she calls 'the populars' hand picked every time for all the glory roles. She used to play netball, loved it, turned up every practice after school - never got picked for the team. For a year she was quite naieve and just thought it wasn't her turn, then something clicked and she realised, hard work and commitment just wasn't going to cut it. Its very sad, she's angry feels rejected; hates the other kids; loathes the teachers her favour popular kids and has been completely turned off school. Shes bright so I hope she will achieve academically but her belief in inclusion has been completely destroyed. I heard her telling her little sister - that teachers horrible (PE teacher youngest likes) she only picks her favourites and ignores everyone else. I could year youngest DD defending teacher or trying to, eldest rounded on her yes you like her because you are probably popular. She used to have such a kind spirit but the school experience has taught her an unhappy lesson of rejection because you aren't good enough. And shes just one child I know its affected this way.

With sport, the ideal is to have several teams, so that even the less talented kids can play a few matches. I remember when I joined a private school late in the day and couldn't play tennis - I was simply ignored by the sports staff, and was never taught the game at all, because I wasn't going to be in the team. That's not right, especially if you're paying to be in the school.
How would it work in school productions? Give everyone who's not talented a decent part in the chorus - really taking part. And try out new people who have potential but haven't been in a show yet. In said private school only children who paid for extra drama lessons were allowed to be in the annual school show ...

I don't agree with casting by age. I have an absolutely brilliant yr 8 girl in a lead role this year. It would have been madness to not use her talents. At the same time, one yr 11 boy has played a lead for the last 3 years. I've never had a single complaint from kids about it. I teach in a small school and the students are pretty supportive of each other.

I think one of my issues is that I literally can not think of a non talented but hard working kid who, by the final performance, is not very good. If they work hard they do a good job. Yes there are super talented kids who do an amazing job with less input. BUT my job is to get them working as a team, supporting each other and achieving together. It is about giving every kid the opportunity to achieve and shine.

Sometimes, the school production can be the one chance for a talented child to shine, particularly if they're not academic or good at sport. So I say give the talented children the main parts and the not-so-talented children more minor roles.

It never bothered me or my DC if they weren't picked. They were all good at other things, and got their chance to shine at sports day, or when they achieved good results in a test. It's important to recognise that each child is good at something, and to give them the opportunity to play to their strengths in whatever capacity.

In the last few years I have had a couple of film agents come in to do screen tests with some children (one ex pupil has now been in several films and is only 15 and a couple have been down to final rounds for some major British films) and children often go to auditions for professional productions.

I think this should be the least of your concerns. I mean that literally. While it might be a concern, it should be the very last thing you think about IMO. Children who participate in professional shows are apparently quite a small minority of the school, by your account. And it is highly unlikely that everyone in this small group will go on to professional careers as actors (or singers or whatever). I would imagine they also receive training outside the school environment, so the majority who only learn drama at school need more attention.

As for ages, can you do inclusive productions with the younger ones, and more selective shows for the oldest children, while also allowing even the Year 8s to participate in the inclusive shows if they aren't chosen for the more exclusive productions? I have no idea if that would be logistically possible.