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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To wonder if Labour really will scrap the bedroom tax?

285 replies

GaryShitpeas · 05/12/2014 16:34

Not going to go into why i am against it but I am. Doesn't affect me ATM as not on Hb but I probably will need to be in the future.

But I personally will be voting labour for this reason alone ....this is the first time I've ever voted Blush (to my shame) because I want it gone. But I wonder if they'll actually keep their promise.....

OP posts:
SomeSortOfDeliciousBiscuit · 06/12/2014 01:08

Politicians aren't bound by pledges, OP, which is why they can say they'll do something and then go back on it. They're not legally bound to stick by what they promised.

Example: The Liberal Democrats campaigned to scrap tuition fees if they got into power back in 2010 and they promised never to vote to increase tuition fees.

Well, they got into power in this coalition government with the Tories and went back on their promises completely. Even if you buy the argument they're sharing power, so they couldn't scrap the fees, they still broke their promise to never to vote to increase fees and in fact, voted to increase them by three times as much.

Stuff like that happens all the time. I'm with CattyCatCat - I don't believe for a second that Labour will vote to get rid of the bedroom tax.

30somethingm · 06/12/2014 01:08

The bedroom tax is a vindictive policy implemented by the Selfservatives. It has cost more than it has saved. The housing benefit bill is rising under this government. Labour will definitely scrap it as it would be popular and make sense.

TickleMyTitsTillFriday · 06/12/2014 01:17

I'm all for the bedroom tax, you do realise that private renters have always had this right?
Families where there are disability should be exempt. Pensioners should not. Council housing shouldn't be for life it should be for people who need it.

Spudthecat · 06/12/2014 01:41

I also support the bedroom tax. Want a spare room? Pay for it!

elephantspoo · 06/12/2014 03:13

Labour will tell you anything in needs to tell you to get you to vote for them. That is their job. They are not paid to tell you the truth. They are not paid to care about what you want. They are paid to tell you what you need to be told to keep you under control. That is all. So long as you vote and you pay your tax, they don't give a flying F about you.

The same goes for the Tories, the. Lib Dems, and all the other alsorans in politics. It's called democratic government. You vote for who tells you what you want to hear, your neighbour votes for who tells them what they want to hear, and the status quo is maintained.

The fact that you believe you have the ability to cast a vote and have a chance of affecting change that is in your interest is the greatest mass delusion of them all. If voting could change things, it would have been made illegal a long time ago.

I can guarantee you that no matter who you vote for you will get the following...

  1. Less money to live on or money that is worth less than it is now and doesn't buy as much.
  2. More laws rules and regulations and more people threatening to punish you for not complying with those laws, rules and regulations.
  3. Higher food prices, higher energy bills, higher train fares, higher bus fares, more expensive everything.
  4. More propaganda about how evil the world outside of the UK is, how much better off you are than people in other countries, how safer you are, and how you should be grateful to your government for providing you with such a great country to live in.
  5. More broken promises, that you think are broken promises, because you decided yourself into thinking they were promises in the first place, when in fact you were just being told what you wanted to hear.
Theoretician · 06/12/2014 10:24

the reality is that forcing people to move out of their homes when there are no smaller homes to move into simply forces them into the private sector, and the housing benefit bill then goes up, not down.

No it doesn't, because a family who are the right size for the vacated property, move out of the private sector into that property. (Other scenarios are available. 99% will involve net good done by public spending going up as a result of housing being more sensibly allocated. Or they will as long as you don't choose to ignore half the effects of each move.)

SaucyJack · 06/12/2014 10:36

"Saucy you are aware the bedroom tax includes panic rooms."

Yes. Are you aware that panic rooms make up 0.054% of those eligible for the loss of the spare room subsidy? Just because there should be a tiny handful of exemptions doesn't mean that on the overwhelming whole it isn't a perfectly fair policy.

SaucyJack · 06/12/2014 10:45

"Want a spare room? Pay for it!"

Yeah, this. Pretty much in a nutshell.

Considering the dire affordable housing shortage, and how many thousands of people are struggling to keep an adequately sized roof over their heads thanks to cuts in the local housing allowance I'm at a loss to understand why council tenants being expected to pay for the luxury of a spare room (like every other fucker has to) are the group being given the most sympathy.

No one else has ever been given more than necessary for free by housing/benefit/health/any other public service. Why the outrage that council under-occupiers are now in the same situation as everyone else in the country?

susyot · 06/12/2014 10:52

when LHA was introduced it only applied to new claims. If you were already receiving the benefit you were only moved to LHA when you made a new claim because of a change in circumstances. Therefore it did not impact on existing claimants. (there is still a tiny number of people receiving the old benefit) Unlike the bedroom tax which applied as soon as it was introduced.

Also LHA gives you an allowance, say for example £100 for a 1 bed flat. If you manage to find a 2 bed for £100 you will still receive the £100, they won't deduct 15% because you are in a 2 bed.

In my area 1 bed private rentals are actually around the same or more expensive than 2 bed because of the rarity.

susyot · 06/12/2014 11:01

BTW this is not the removal of a subsidy. It is the under occupancy penalty.

It is a penalty. A 15% reduction in HB is greater than the rent differential between different size properties. (council housing in many areas was built on a similar size footprint but reconfigured differently internally)

Someone who only claims for example 50% hb has the full 15% deducted from their benefit. Eg they claim £50 benefit for £100 rent. the benefit is reduced by £15.

s113 · 06/12/2014 11:07

Politicians + promises kept when in government = Utopia.

And yes, I haven't forgotten Tony Bliar and tuition fees (to say nothing of war!)

susyot · 06/12/2014 11:11

In some areas of the country the same room is actually the "parlour", the dining room. Because it is a room in its own right rather than a walk through it is classed by regulations as a bedroom.

In areas of the country where there were traditionally larger families, the council houses were built to meet that need. If you moved all the "under occupiers" out and moved in all the overcrowded in both private and social rental there will still be empty properties.

This was a badly thought out policy. The Conservatives admitted that the only way it would save money would be if the poor made up the shortfall in rent. This has the knock on effect of sucking money out of the local economy.

SaucyJack · 06/12/2014 11:13

"A 15% reduction in HB is greater than the rent differential between different size properties"

I can only speak for the area I live in, but comparing the rent we pay on a two-bed flat with the rent my mum pays on a three-bed house..... that quite simply isn't true.

ihavenonameonhere · 06/12/2014 11:16

Well I don't agree with panic rooms but overall agree with the policy.

WooWooOwl · 06/12/2014 11:23

It's not a tax. It is people being given the amount of housing benefit they actually need to pay their rent for them. It's stopping people in council accommodation being given free spare rooms for no reason.

As a policy, I don't think there's any arguing with that tbh, as long as appropriate exemptions are made.

The way the policy was introduced could have been better, but people who were identified by councils as needing to pay for their own spare rooms themselves were warned in advance.

susyot · 06/12/2014 11:32

if this had been introduced for new tenancies/claims only (like LHA) then it would have been much more workable.

SaucyJack · 06/12/2014 11:36

But no one in a new tenancy would be given a property with spare rooms in the first place susyot

NeedsAsockamnesty · 06/12/2014 12:20

Its not quite true about private renters having the same thing and always having it.

Private renters do not get HB they get LHA it works quite differently

OldLadyKnows · 06/12/2014 12:36

I know two people who were allocated council tenancies with spare rooms in my local town alone. One was eligible for a two-bed, but none were available so she got a three-bed. Her sister was entitled to a one-bed, guess what, there were none available so she got a two-bed. (Obviously they were housed at different times...)

foslady · 06/12/2014 12:44

Makes me laugh when people say HA have never built enough 1 beds. Before the under occupancy levy was introduced all the applicants/ tenants would moan to me that all the 1 bed stock we had was a waste of housing and we really struggled to let them - was on about free rent weeks/carpeting then etc to get them more attractive.
No suddenly we're the bad guys for not having enough 1 beds.......

Original poster
GaryShitpeas · 06/12/2014 12:54

When I first moved into my council house there was a "spare room" ...even though I had 2 dc , I was deemed to only need 2 bedrooms. but there was only 3 beds+ available at that time. Luckily for me ...:so Dh and I were able to have another baby this year as we have room (bet that one will piss off the social housing haters Grin)

OP posts:
revealall · 06/12/2014 14:22

I also agree that it should stay.

No one is saying you can't have the council/HA property with extra rooms it's saying that the state won't pay for them.

There are masses of different sized properties on HomeSwap. It has nothing to do with how many homes of the "wrong size" were built. How would you even begin to work out what size is missing from housing stock?

TouchOfNatural · 06/12/2014 14:48

Good for you Gary, that you've filled the rooms in your house. Other families (who pay their own way in life and don't expect to live off the govt/taxpayers) who have another child don't have your good fortune. They either are more squeezed at home or need to PAY to move to a bigger house. They're being responsible adults who take responsibility and accountability for their own choices in life.

I do not understand this 'entitled' attitude that so many people in social housing have. Like the govt owes them a favour. I am all for the govt helping people out in hard times (lucky people living here who have the luxury of a govt helping them out at all.. In most countries there is no govt help whatsoever) but it needs to be short lived, till that person has got back onto their own two feet. Not long term/life term.. As so many people view social housing. Private renters don't assume they rent for life why should those in social housing? Too many people have had it too easy for too long and they still complain the loudest :)

TouchOfNatural · 06/12/2014 14:51

And I am not a 'social housing' hater by the way I am a 'social housing entitled attitude' hater.

I prefer to work hard and make my own way in life. Pay my own way... its the way I was brought up :)

I have far too much self respect to live off other people's money and to feel the word owes me anything... Especially for my own life choices eg: deciding to have children etc.

VodkaJelly · 06/12/2014 15:11

TouchOfNatural you do realise that people in Council Houses have to pay rent? And you can get HB is your rent council OR private? Not sure how people in social housing live off other peoples money?