to wonder why people think that Christmas has been "banned"?

[queenoftheknight]

Why do people say that Christmas has been banned, when it quite clearly has not? There are Christmas trees and lights in every town centre and the shops are full of Christmas stuff.

Why, do people believe a myth, rather than what they can actually see? Or do they somehow, not connect the two experiences?

This baffles me, every year.

[TartinaTiara]

Thank you. I was wondering why my friend had posted up "Facebook has banned this picture" stuff (nativity scene of dubious artistic merit) on her feed. She tends to post a lot of crap, but she's my friend, and I love her, so I don't hide everything.

Am relieved to know it's the usual xenophobic shite, and that Facebook isn't setting itself up as an arbiter of kitsch Christmassy artwork (though, had I a three year old child, I could wheel out the cliche of how (s)he could do better with his/her crayons, and there would be some truth in the statement). I'll go off now and pretend to be confused about it all to wind her up.

[BackOnlyBriefly]

Well of course it's not true, but it's not completely untrue. You can find one or two examples if you look for each of these things. Usually someone inexperienced and overzealous.

The trouble is that the media don't say "This silliness happened in two places last year". Instead they make it seem like it's everywhere.

They do the same with those benefits stories. You have to remember if they show 3 examples of something that's because 3 is all they could find.

[MrsTerryPratchett]

Usually someone inexperienced and overzealous. Also, in my experience it is normally someone doing it 'on behalf' of someone else. It's not the people who are Muslim, Jewish, Hindu or Atheist; it's well meaning Christians. The road to hell and all that.

[HappyAgainOneDay]

Well, tell me why it's so hard to find Christmas cards with a semblance of a baby Jesus idea on it. A camel, a star, a couple of shepherds.

[LeonardoAcropolis]

Oh I love a bit of "christmas is banned" banter. Especially when it's followed with "no wonder Britain's the laughing stock of the world". Brilliant. Self important enough to imaging that the rest of the world cares what we do.

[cantreallybebothered]

Because Happy the muslamic rayguns ate them.

[locomotor]

There is way more xmas celebration than there was when I grew up 40 odd years ago! Lights on every high street, trees in school and workplaces, school xmas parties- all that is quite new. We did a modern nativity, saw lights in Oxford St and that was it. I find it ridiculous how long it all drags on for now.

[limitedperiodonly]

Well, tell me why it's so hard to find Christmas cards with a semblance of a baby Jesus idea on it. A camel, a star, a couple of shepherds


It's not an anti-Christian conspiracy, HappyAgainOneDay. It's a retail decision and most consumers don't want them.

Do you really expect retailers to give shelf space to unwanted cards or discount them or store or pulp them just for you?

I like religious Christmas cards, not because I'm religious, but I have a vestige of my upbringing and I find them meaningful when sent to the right person. I also like cards with penguins and snowballs on them.

It's easy to get religious cards. I buy them from a nearby church shop and vaguely-religious ones from John Lewis. I believe the internet is also available.

BTW I wouldn't consider a picture of a camel, a star or a couple of shepherds to be religious.

It's not and if I was unkind, I'd find it crass that you think that Christianity and its message, symbolism and art can be reduced to Disneyfication.

But I'm a forgiving person, in the Christian tradition.

So I'll just snigger and hand the lonely shepherds a torch to light their way home to the camel's bottom

[HappyAgainOneDay]

How rude you are, Limited.

Christmas is about the birth of Jesus. Robins, snow and holly are throughout winter. Prince Albert introduced Christmas trees so they do not go back as far as the year 0.

A camel is a clue that the three kings / wise men might be around somewhere.

I am not 'religious' in that I do not go to church but I do believe. And I do not understand why you refer to disneyfication..... (Poor old Winnie the Pooh).

[limitedperiodonly]

Yes, I am quite rude.

I'm also fairly knowledgeable about scripture.

Camels weren't part of the story of the birth of Christ. Neither was Winnie the Pooh. Look it up.

[gymboywalton]

it's not hard to find christmas cards with pictures of camels, wisemen, stars, baby jesus etc etc
i have been christmas card shopping today i the charity shops and there were bloody hundreds. you want to get yourself down to the helter shop or oxfam or the british heart foundation or roy castle lung foundation-plenty of religious cards.

[ShipwreckedAndComatose]

Well, tell me why it's so hard to find Christmas cards with a semblance of a baby Jesus idea on it. A camel, a star, a couple of shepherds

Because they are unfashionable and don't sell well??!!

[BackOnlyBriefly]

Come to think of it the bible doesn't say there were three kings. I think people assume that because it mentions gold, frankincense, and myrrh.

It could have meant "yeah we got gold from 12 of them, but some also brought frankincense and there was one at the end who had a big pot of myrrh"

[DelightfulFunky]

I don't know about Christmas being banned but we are having a holiday jumper competition at work and have been told that we are not allowed to call it a Christmas jumper competition. Not sure what that's all about!

[queenoftheknight]

"Christmas is just the current name in most of Europe for a longstanding traditional festival of lights and food in the middle of winter".

What SGB said. :)

I saw a really fascinating film about how all the details of the Christian story are based on astrology.

[flicktuck]

Who the heck thinks christmas has been banned? where do you live op ?

[BackOnlyBriefly]

DelightfulFunky, maybe there are a lot of people there who don't celebrate christmas and they were afraid they'd feel excluded.

Christians and non-believers are ok with christmas, but not sure how Jews and Muslims feel. I expect most of them would be ok with it, but the ones who are serious about their religion might feel uncomfortable because they believe the claim that Jesus is god is a lie.

That's different from banning it.

[WorraLiberty]

I don't think I know anyone that thick?

[limitedperiodonly]

Easter is a much bigger deal in the Christian calendar than Christmas. But no one bleats about people trying to ban that.

Perhaps that's because many of the people doing the bleating know bugger-all about Christianity.

[limitedperiodonly]

the bible doesn't say there were three kings. I think people assume that because it mentions gold, frankincense, and myrrh. It could have meant "yeah we got gold from 12 of them, but some also brought frankincense and there was one at the end who had a big pot of myrrh"

Good point BackOnlyBriefly


This is always part of my Christmas tradition .

[Gruntfuttock]

Like PP I have never heard of anyone saying Christmas has been banned. It's obvious that it hasn't so I have no idea who all the people referred to in the OP can be.

[BackOnlyBriefly]

I do love that clip, limitedperiodonly :)

I might watch the whole thing again soon.

[workhouse]

Our school has a nativity play, everybody joins in!! We are just in a normal London borough, by normal I mean an average percentage of different races and religions. No one complains about any of this stuff, it's like the Daily Mail is on a completely different planet.

[Mrwillywonkasbitch]

Because people are stupid

[limitedperiodonly]

I did once ask someone as the firm shut down for several days' break the day before Christmas Eve what he'd be doing for Christmas.

He told me primly: 'We don't celebrate Christmas. We're Jewish.'

I knew he was Jewish and I didn't want to know what the fuck he was doing. It was an awkward lift moment with someone I didn't care for but I felt pleasantries were in order. I hadn't asked him if he'd be converting in order to save his soul. I'd asked him what his plans were for the days off.

So kill-joys exist everywhere. But though he's a prickly git and the only non-Christian I've met who said something like that, I still don't think he's ever tried to ban Christmas.