to wonder why people think that Christmas has been "banned"?

[queenoftheknight]

Why do people say that Christmas has been banned, when it quite clearly has not? There are Christmas trees and lights in every town centre and the shops are full of Christmas stuff.

Why, do people believe a myth, rather than what they can actually see? Or do they somehow, not connect the two experiences?

This baffles me, every year.

[BackOnlyBriefly]

Bollocks. Whatever "Christmas" might have been one and a half millenia ago has absolutely no relevance now

but Christians are a minority now of the people who celebrate Christmas so we could equally say "Whatever Christmas might have been 50 years ago has absolutely no relevance now"

Christians slapped a christmas label on the existing winter festival back when they had the power to do what they wanted. Now they don't have that power and that's just tough.

[TooSensitive]

There is a nativity at our school as there are assemblies for all the other big religious festivals (eid, hanukkah, diwali). Each is performed by different year groups.

There is also an evening ks2 concert in December which used to be called the Christmas concert. Due to pressure from parents it is now called the Winter concert and the songs sung can have no religious reference within them. So the word Christmas can't be sung - also others such as Jesus etc...

Not sure how I feel about this. Seems a little ott.

Don't think Xmas has been banned though wish it were banned in TV adverts and in shops in September

[SoupDragon]

Modern Christmas is rubbish.

Only if you let it be rubbish.

[Toadinthehole]

Mind you, people whining about the lack of Christianity in people-actually-celebrating-Christmas are equally fucking dim, really. Christmas is just the current name in most of Europe for a longstanding traditional festival of lights and food in the middle of winter.

Bollocks. Whatever "Christmas" might have been one and a half millenia ago has absolutely no relevance now. And it is true to say that Christmas has become a big consumerfest. One doesn't have to be religious to miss the religious element of Christmas, something which has only vanished in the last decade or two. Modern Christmas is rubbish.

[Ericaequites]

Because my old school gave up the lovely tradition of Vespers with a Nativity and High Church Carols for Lumina. They wear white sweaters for that multicultural nonsense which aren't practical, nor appropriate in winter. In my day, white sweaters were it permitted uniform.
In short:change is not improvement. It's just change.

[nocoolnamesleft]

At my local hospital, the kids' Xmas party is always booked for when one particular consultant is free to be Santa. He's Muslim.

[limitedperiodonly]

I did once ask someone as the firm shut down for several days' break the day before Christmas Eve what he'd be doing for Christmas.

He told me primly: 'We don't celebrate Christmas. We're Jewish.'

I knew he was Jewish and I didn't want to know what the fuck he was doing. It was an awkward lift moment with someone I didn't care for but I felt pleasantries were in order. I hadn't asked him if he'd be converting in order to save his soul. I'd asked him what his plans were for the days off.

So kill-joys exist everywhere. But though he's a prickly git and the only non-Christian I've met who said something like that, I still don't think he's ever tried to ban Christmas.

[Mrwillywonkasbitch]

Because people are stupid

[workhouse]

Our school has a nativity play, everybody joins in!! We are just in a normal London borough, by normal I mean an average percentage of different races and religions. No one complains about any of this stuff, it's like the Daily Mail is on a completely different planet.

[BackOnlyBriefly]

I do love that clip, limitedperiodonly :)

I might watch the whole thing again soon.

[Gruntfuttock]

Like PP I have never heard of anyone saying Christmas has been banned. It's obvious that it hasn't so I have no idea who all the people referred to in the OP can be.

[limitedperiodonly]

the bible doesn't say there were three kings. I think people assume that because it mentions gold, frankincense, and myrrh. It could have meant "yeah we got gold from 12 of them, but some also brought frankincense and there was one at the end who had a big pot of myrrh"

Good point BackOnlyBriefly


This is always part of my Christmas tradition .

[limitedperiodonly]

Easter is a much bigger deal in the Christian calendar than Christmas. But no one bleats about people trying to ban that.

Perhaps that's because many of the people doing the bleating know bugger-all about Christianity.

[WorraLiberty]

I don't think I know anyone that thick?

[BackOnlyBriefly]

DelightfulFunky, maybe there are a lot of people there who don't celebrate christmas and they were afraid they'd feel excluded.

Christians and non-believers are ok with christmas, but not sure how Jews and Muslims feel. I expect most of them would be ok with it, but the ones who are serious about their religion might feel uncomfortable because they believe the claim that Jesus is god is a lie.

That's different from banning it.

[flicktuck]

Who the heck thinks christmas has been banned? where do you live op ?

[queenoftheknight]

"Christmas is just the current name in most of Europe for a longstanding traditional festival of lights and food in the middle of winter".

What SGB said. :)

I saw a really fascinating film about how all the details of the Christian story are based on astrology.

[DelightfulFunky]

I don't know about Christmas being banned but we are having a holiday jumper competition at work and have been told that we are not allowed to call it a Christmas jumper competition. Not sure what that's all about!

[BackOnlyBriefly]

Come to think of it the bible doesn't say there were three kings. I think people assume that because it mentions gold, frankincense, and myrrh.

It could have meant "yeah we got gold from 12 of them, but some also brought frankincense and there was one at the end who had a big pot of myrrh"

[ShipwreckedAndComatose]

Well, tell me why it's so hard to find Christmas cards with a semblance of a baby Jesus idea on it. A camel, a star, a couple of shepherds

Because they are unfashionable and don't sell well??!!

[gymboywalton]

it's not hard to find christmas cards with pictures of camels, wisemen, stars, baby jesus etc etc
i have been christmas card shopping today i the charity shops and there were bloody hundreds. you want to get yourself down to the helter shop or oxfam or the british heart foundation or roy castle lung foundation-plenty of religious cards.

[limitedperiodonly]

Yes, I am quite rude.

I'm also fairly knowledgeable about scripture.

Camels weren't part of the story of the birth of Christ. Neither was Winnie the Pooh. Look it up.

[HappyAgainOneDay]

How rude you are, Limited.

Christmas is about the birth of Jesus. Robins, snow and holly are throughout winter. Prince Albert introduced Christmas trees so they do not go back as far as the year 0.

A camel is a clue that the three kings / wise men might be around somewhere.

I am not 'religious' in that I do not go to church but I do believe. And I do not understand why you refer to disneyfication..... (Poor old Winnie the Pooh).

[limitedperiodonly]

Well, tell me why it's so hard to find Christmas cards with a semblance of a baby Jesus idea on it. A camel, a star, a couple of shepherds


It's not an anti-Christian conspiracy, HappyAgainOneDay. It's a retail decision and most consumers don't want them.

Do you really expect retailers to give shelf space to unwanted cards or discount them or store or pulp them just for you?

I like religious Christmas cards, not because I'm religious, but I have a vestige of my upbringing and I find them meaningful when sent to the right person. I also like cards with penguins and snowballs on them.

It's easy to get religious cards. I buy them from a nearby church shop and vaguely-religious ones from John Lewis. I believe the internet is also available.

BTW I wouldn't consider a picture of a camel, a star or a couple of shepherds to be religious.

It's not and if I was unkind, I'd find it crass that you think that Christianity and its message, symbolism and art can be reduced to Disneyfication.

But I'm a forgiving person, in the Christian tradition.

So I'll just snigger and hand the lonely shepherds a torch to light their way home to the camel's bottom

[locomotor]

There is way more xmas celebration than there was when I grew up 40 odd years ago! Lights on every high street, trees in school and workplaces, school xmas parties- all that is quite new. We did a modern nativity, saw lights in Oxford St and that was it. I find it ridiculous how long it all drags on for now.