To ask what mumsnetters think is a low income

[Pimmsoclocknow]

Totally inspired by another thread, but what do you think is a low income. - for a individual and for a family of four

We're on the 66th centile - and we are very comfortable - which is nice, because we have been very poor in the past. However we are only able to be comfortable because we inherited enough to put a deposit down on a house - even with above average income there is no way on earth we would be able to buy a house where we live without help. I'm pretty sure the lower down the income scale you are the less likely it is that you will get help to buy a house - social mobility being what it is - that's an awful lot of people in private rental unable to buy.

Me, dh and dd in north east. We are one the second decile, we earn more than 17 percent of the population according to the calculator. The calculator doesn't take into account that dh is self employed so any sickness or time off is unpaid, I can't factor these in when putting numbers in as I don't know if he's going to get sick in advance. There's a lot of unpaid time in winter where the weather controls if they can work or not. His wage runs out before the next one. It's a struggle and it's really shit a lot of the times but I'm aware we have more than others. I'll go without lunches so dd can have the school trip etc, others can't do that as they already skipping meals to heat the house. We are happy though, as cheesy as it sounds we have each other.

On paper dh is partnership with bil, but in reality he is employed by bil, bil makes money simply on dh and the other "partners" turning up. He makes at least double what dh does for the same job, SIL also works but doesn't have childcare expenses for four dc. They have a new build four bedroom home (mortgage almost paid) plus two other properties they rent out(mortgage free), run two new cars,(monthly payment for one is the same as our monthly rent) gym memberships, four DC with expensive hobbies, nights out every weekend, they have at least a couple of holidays each a year separately (often abroad) and also one together with the dc plus weekends here and there to Alton towers or centre parcs etc. they say they are skint regularly. I love them to pieces and they work fucking hard for what they do have, they would help us out in a flash if needed be it money or otherwise, just wish they wouldn't say they are skint.

?Yes a massive leap at the top - the uk is the most unequal of almost all affluent countries, the top one percent suck up vast amounts of our wealth and our income

Oh course circumstances should be taken into account

Family one - £30k. Rent 2 bed flat, and pay x2 nursery fees, and commute. = skint/ in debt

Family 2 -£30k. Live in same 2 bed but mortgage paid off. No children. Work next door = plenty spare

Our rent alone in London is approx £20k ( 1 bed flat), and part time childcare x2 £20k. That's without bills/ food/ commute/ life on top. So under £50k would be very hard for us

Actually, the IFS data shows that talking about the 'top 1%' is pretty meaningless, as the variation within it is unbelievable. The people who scrape in to the top 1% are earning about £150k a year (or something similar) but they're being lumped in with oligarchs and Premiership footballers and all sorts of other people who are earning millions.

It's actually not all that helpful to discuss families with an income of £150k in the same way. That isn't to say that they aren't well paid (or to claim that they are in any meaningful sense 'the squeezed middle'). Just that they really, really aren't comparable to the global super elite. It's not all super yachts and private jets in the top 1%.

It puts me at 65% but if I take away the children's Disability payments and only include child benefit we are at 51%. I think we are really well off so that surprised me! Maybe because we live in Wales so not as expensive as elsewhere.

yes, the large income discrepancy within the top one percent further illustrates the huge inequalities in the uk

Artandco - £50k would be hard, and then you'd have to move, and pull your kids out of childcare/find a cheaper care solution. At which point you'd be able to get by on less - it might not be as nice, but you could do it. And after a while at that level, getting back to your current earnings would make you feel wealthy.

Someone on £18 doesn't have that leeway to make cuts. And there are a lot of those people.

I apologise if that was what you meant to begin with, I wasn't sure if it was.

I meant £18k, obviously

Our rent alone in London is approx £20k ( 1 bed flat), and part time childcare x2 £20k. That's without bills/ food/ commute/ life on top. So under £50k would be very hard for us

yeah, London is ridiculous. Rent in London has no comparison in the rUK.

For one year we had two children in childcare. You can't be earning 30K and doing that.

I earn £34k and my dh is on £38k. No dc and we can't afford to moved from our two bedroom house cost of pivot and house prices are extortionate where I'm from!

That's meant to say cost of living!!

15k, one adult one teen. this is only this high as i am on disability related bens.

i have calculated this to include housing and council tax help.

it will soon be 13.5k when the sickness ben stops.

Has anyone been on to moan that they can't manage on £100K yet?!

Never really knew what a trigger was until I read this thread. I'm now coming to terms with the fact that DH and I survive on around £11,500 (net) a year. I knew we were struggling, but had thought there were many others in the same boat. I barely made it out of bed this morning under the weight of depression that fell on me after reading this thread last night. Trying to think positive, but tbh, not getting there yet. It's not like there's light at the end of this tunnel - we're both over 50, unemployed, and live in a region where there are literally no jobs to be had.

On the positive side, we have a great view, and will be mortgage-free (yes we pay a mortgage out of that £11,500) early next year. I guess it could be worse.

shaska - do you honestly think everyone who lives in London wants to live here? Some jobs are restricted by location. Some people have aging parents they need to be near (not everyone in London has migrated here).

Yes, one of you could give up work, take the kids and move away while the other spends their weeknights on friends sofas and sees their kids at weekends (I know families who have resorted to that). It isn't unreasonable though that most families would prefer not to do that.

And the only cheaper form of childcare in London is family, if they're willing, able and nearby. There is very little difference between the cost of private nurseries, state nurseries and childminders in London.

Instead of resentful comments about those who are better off, how about comments questioning why the current government seems hell bent on dismantling the welfare state and wittling away public services, leaving those most in need with the least?

MillionPram - oh don't get me wrong - I live in London! Sometimes I dream of moving elsewhere and having a lovely house and better quality of life, but I suspect I would struggle to find a job that I like and that pays as well as my job here. But then, if I REALLY wanted to move, I could probably get a different job, even if it paid less or I didn't enjoy it as much - it's a question of what I value in life. And let's be honest, I'm very likely being completely precious and 'only London has jobs' about it all and would be just fine elsewhere.

That ability to decide what we value - in my case it's London life and my job, you mentioned seeing children - is a luxury, and it's a luxury a lot of people don't really have to the same degree. That was all I meant.

Depending on where you live, if you would qualify for HB, if you rented, I'd say you were on a pretty low income. That threshold would be different in different areas, depending on the typical size of rent. Working families who qualify for WTC are definitely on a low income, wherever they are, and those who don't because they can't get the hours are probably pretty much squeaking by.

Like nearly everyone on here says, it depends on where you live and how much housing costs.

Also, what the calculator does not show, is inherited wealth. My observation is that a significant amount of people live more comfortable lives than the income they earn because of bank of mum and dad.

I feel poor compared to others on mumsnet (from my impression anyway!) our total household income is around £50-60,000, although it varies year to year depending on business. In real life we live in a relatively poor area of the north west and I dont know many people who have incomes much higher so not sure what is actually reality!

Having spent a few years trying to get jobs in other parts of the UK, and for less money, with not a single interview (whilst fielding calls from headhunters in London), I can't say its easy to move as we certainly haven't found it so. It was an eye opener to see how scarce jobs were elsewhere and many employers were open about giving preference to locals (rightly so).

But you're right, I could give up work and dp could see dd at weekends and I'm grateful to have the choice not to have to do that.

Royrodgers - at least when your mortgage is paid next year that will be a weight off your shoulders?! I am sorry you feel so down and hope you feel better.

That calculator puts us at 65%, btw. The one in the other thread put us at 55% with the same information.

sothisishowitfeels that's it exactly, you don't know how much other people earn, you gauge it by what there lifestyle is like. Which is why those who live in a cheaper place with a cheaper mortgage payment, tiny commute and one child and mum and dad round the corner for childcare could earn wildly less than someone with a long train commute, high rent and two kids but still on the face of it have a 'better' lifestyle in terms of more new things, holidays etc. So we all have a really skewed view of how much people are 'worth' and why earnings aren't the whole story. Also whether the current earnings are long term, we don't own a house as our earning s were low until two years ago and now they are higher. That doesn't mean we 'have as much' as a person who is on a lower centile now because they might have had very steady earnings over 15 years, bought a house early etc.

Again I'm not whinging, very grateful we can get on the housing ladder now we are in our 30's after a tight 10 years.