AIBU about DH's debts?

[KitKat1985]

Hello.

Me and DH have been together about 5 years (married a year and a half). He's never been great with money whereas I've always been very cautious (very much of the if I don't have the money I won't get it, and have never had a credit card). I have no debts with the exception of our joint mortgage which we have paid each month without fail since getting it nearly 4 years ago. DH has a credit card which he originally used to owe a few hundred on but over the past couple of years this has crept up to about £3000. On top of this 3 years ago he took out a 5 year finance deal on a second-hand car (I was never happy about it, but we were unmarried at the time and I didn't feel I had any right to tell him what to do). The car has been a bloody nightmare since the day he got it. It has cost untold hundreds, probably 2-3 thousand, in repair bills (indeed it's been responsible for a lot of the credit card debt) and after 3 years he wants to replace it and cut his losses (which I can see his point) but he still has 2 years worth of payments left on it worth just over £2600 and will only be able to afford a new car by me giving him a lot of my savings. So in total he already owes over £5500 without even getting another car yet. Every time I try and talk to him about these increasing debts he mutters 'oh it'll get sorted' and doesn't really do anything else about it. He's very blase about putting stuff on his credit card with no great thought about how he'll eventually pay it off. I don't want to tell him what to do with his money (we have always had a joint account for all bills, mortgage etc with agreement that our personal monies leftover after this we do with as we like). However now we are married I suspect he's debts are hitting both of our credit ratings hard and our chances of ever getting another mortgage to get a bigger house so we can eventually have room for another child (we have one beautiful 10 week old DD at the moment) are getting slimmer and slimmer. Neither of us are big earners and £5500 will take a long time to pay off. So my question is do I get a bit tough on him about it or is this being unreasonable and should I let him sort his own finances?

No, No, No.

Don't use savings but do bring car debt into the family pot and get it paid off. Why should family money be used to pay off his £60 shirt(s)?

Then the rest as above, work out how much extra you both need to add to the joint account to pay off the car and the repairs which were added to the CC (it shouldn't be difficult to look back through statements) and have a DD to finance company / credit provider paying that amount.

what happens if your car needs a major repair but you've used your savings on his? will he have the money to sort it out for you? Probably not so any savings that are used on the car, need to be paid back as your family slush fund.

You haven't had all the repairs to pay for - I thought they were the primary reason for the credit card debt? IMO repairs to both cars should come from the household pot.

Look, you better get your financial head on, rather than your "miffed wife".

How big is the interest on your savings account?
How big is the interest on his cc debt? Most likely around 30%.
With minimum payments, the debt will still be increasing each month.

It is not financially sound for you to sit on your savings while the debt is increasing.

You can either move the debt to a 0% finance deal for 18 months and calculate exactly how much you need to pay per month to pay it off in these 18 months, or pay it off in full.

The car is another issue. If the car is costing in terms of both stress and money for repairs, it is worth getting a different model. Be sensible about the car you get, and go for one that is not too old, has good reviews in terms of durability and running costs.

I cant believe that you are causing issues over a debt that has been run up over car repairs, while you have savings that could not just get him out of debt, but be cheaper then keep paying minimum balance long term.

Well if your savings are your personal savings shouldn't he be allowed some freedom with regards to what he spends his money on.

Re the car. Lots of garages are doing deals at the moment for 100-120 per month for brand new cars. Yes they are the small cars such as fiat500 ford KA etc but they will be brand new, no repairs, cheap fuel and tax. Encourage him in this direction.

Good is right. it doesn't matter that you bought more into the marriage than he did. If a wife was posting on here that her DH earned more than she did and that she had taken a loan to buy a car before their marriage that he was now expecting her to cover from her personal money, what do you think she'd be told?

If you want to be married you have to find a way to merge your finances IMO.

My anxiety is that whilst the credit card debt is in large part due to car repairs, it is no means exclusively caused by them, as I say above. A good chunk has also come from him being crap with money. I am currently on mat leave and not back to work until next sept. My own earnings are going to greatly down in the meantime and if I give him my savings I have no means to re-coup this money. If I then hit an unavoidable expense in the next year (say my own car dies a death) then I have no available finances to manage this, without running up debts of my own, which is my anxiety.

Another reason why you need to merge your finances OP. While you're off/your income is reduced either his income or your joint savings needs to support you both.

I would not pay his debts unless he agrees to change his spending habits. No more credit card for one, cut it up. Budget for the month so he doesn't run out. Can he not get a new car on the same finance deal? (New as in different, obviously second hand still)

The saying 'You don't solve money problems with money" is so true. I wouldn't be so quick to pay off the debt until he shows a shift in attitude.

Your DH needs to understand how he got here by doing an "autopsy".He made the choices that got him in the situation so needs to own them before it can change. He might need to make bigger changes or else the cycle will just repeat. An example might be the car - was he just really, really unlucky or did he choose a car that has high servicing costs? When he got the first bill did he cut down his spending in other ways to balance the additional costs?

I know the instinct is to repay however it's also important to have emergency savings (which you seem to have) so I wouldn't rush to pay off his debt unless he makes an effort to change the situation.

Rubbish. You don't have to have joint finances to be married, its about what works for the two people, not about what randoms online think that marital finance "should" be. They came to an agreement. Now he wants to change it because he can't manage his money.

Re the car. Lots of garages are doing deals at the moment for 100-120 per month for brand new cars. Yes they are the small cars such as fiat500 ford KA etc but they will be brand new, no repairs, cheap fuel and tax. Encourage him in this direction

I suggested something similar upthread, but the DH in question is driving 80 miles round trip to work each day, so the monthly payment won't be that cheap, but it is a good idea in principle.

However, he does need to stick to a fixed and sensible budget that is affordable within the family finances for discretionary purchases such as clothes, lunches etc.

I would say you bring the debts, car maintenance, the food shopping all into the family pot.

It would make more sense to use savings to clear the debts (assuming that won't leave you with no savings for rainy days) but you increase what your DH puts in the joint account each month to cover repaying the savings (transfer each month day after his money hits the joint account), and half the food bills (or whatever division seems fair given the differences in your wages) and something towards car maintenance. Whats left is 'fun money' and ideally you have strict rules that the joint account debt card can only be used in supermarkets.

Also have a family rule that nothing is put on the credit cards that can't be paid off out of the current or next month's 'fun money' budget without both agreeing it. (so a boiler break down, ok, an extra fancy shirt, not)

As a family, that will at least mean you aren't wasting money on interest payments or paying late fees if he's not paying off his debts properly each month. It also means you can start budgeting for MOTs etc, and as it's joint money paying for cars, you get a say.

You have decided to share your life with this man, so you have to start acting like a unit. This doesn't mean you have to have just one joint account with both of you spending 'fun money' out of it, but it does mean for house hold bills (which cars are), they need to be joint responsiblity - both in paying and agreeing to take on in the first place. His debts aren't just his problem, but if you are going to pay them then you have a say in if they are run up again.

If he doesn't want to do this, then I would think very carefully about bringing another child into a relationship where you have vastly different approaches to money. 2 DCs are a lot more expensive than 1 to fund on your own, and it does sound like eventually, even if you share a house with him still, you will be funding them on your own.

You need to sit down together and agree what you need to do going forward. I think that you might as well get control and manage your joint finances - someone has to since clearly, you aren't happy with the status quo. A joint pot obviously makes everything visible which is imo, a good thing especially with individual debts which impact the amount of household disposable income. I tend to have a saver's mentality and get anxious when we have to use our credit card on occasion to avoid being overdrawn. My instinct is to rein it back in so that we are back on track asap. You need to persuade him round to thinking that you need to make more than the minimum payment every month - agree a payment schedule that would suit you both - not too onerous that it seems too harsh but obviously, so that you have the end of the debt in sight. Set a goal - once it is paid off, you can still 'save' but towards a more rewarding target - like a nice weekend break away. Good Luck!

DH and I have similar arrangements to you, in that we have joint account for bills, separate spending money (same amount each). DH is not bad with money but I am better, and have more in savings.

In your situation I think what would be fair is to work out how much of the debt the car caused and how much was his spending. Whatever was the car, both increase your contribution to the joint account to pay this off (bringing it down by some of your savings if poss).

The proportion that was his unnecessary sending he should have to contribute that amount extra out of his half of his personal spends to pay this off quickly.

This way there is a consequence for him and he'll think twice before doing it again.

Oh, and only on the condition he cuts up the credit card.

This goes both ways. It is a joint responsibility and debt. Make him cut up the card, take a deep breath and use what savings you have to clear the debt. You will never earn as much interest on your savings as he is being charged in interest. Then both assess your budgets and both repay any remaining debt between you. It isn't 'fair' to you, but your mortgage lender doesn't assess you on an individual basis, they look at you as a whole so a problem for one is a problem for the other. We had this exact situation and paying it all off together actually brought us closer. You're a team and this is how it works.

Dont tell her how it works! Everyone is different, you don't get to choose one way of being married and insist everyone else has to be the same. The arrogance!

I'm in a similar ish position. My OH has debts and I don't. He had them from before we got together and has never been particularly bothered about paying them back. They affect his credit rating so I have had to get the mortgage alone although he does pay towards all the household bills and mortgage payments.

I will not pay off his debts as, like you, I live within my means whereas he is quite happy to spend everything he has and then ask to borrow money from me. I don't see why my quieter lifestyle should subsidise his more lavish lifestyle! I think if he was more concerned and committed to paying it back then perhaps I would contribute but if he's not prepared to cut back then why should I? I think if I was in your position I would feel quite resentful if I had to use my savings to pay off his debts and he carried on as normal!

Oh and OP, while lots of people on here will say it's best if you have just one pot approach - if you have a partner with a different attitude to spending and saving than you, then just one pot is a terrible aproach! Granted, it might be better to have both wages paid into the joint account, all bills and food bought from that, but transfer out a set amount of 'fun' money to each personal account. Do not get into an arrangment where someone who "spends until it's gone" does their personal/fun spending from the bills account. They just don't have the attitude to hold off to make sure there's enough for bills, or they will make sure there's enough to cover bills, but not any savings, and not enough for you to have any personal spending money as well.

If you have say, £3k a month coming in, and £2k a month bills/debt/food costs, they might agree when sitting down that you will both only spend £300 a month on personal spending and save the other £400, but in reality, they won't keep track of it and will treat that extra £400 as "ok to overspend into a bit just this once". personal accounts with £300 transfered to would be easier for you to control/limit the overspend tendancy.

The problem I see is that he won't face up to anything. A financial advisor who is also a counselor might be able to get him to talk (not get away with muttering), and get him to participate in planning.
I do think if you pay off his card, he will just run up another one.
Ideally, it would be a joint goal to pay things off and live below your means. But he does not feel that way. He wants stuff. Now.

Separate accounts really only works when there is more than sufficient household income for ALL the outgoings. What happens when you are short some months for one reason or another? Basically, you have to ask your partner to transfer money into the joint account which can be a real phaff if this happens every single month OR you use your credit card. I know which would be the easier option!

The OP is currently on maternity leave until next Sept - she may be fortunate enough that her maternity pay still covers her normal share of the household expenditure but I'm hazarding a guess that her decreased level of personal income is adding to her overall anxiety about their joint household finances. It's easier said than done to attempt to change someone else's spending habits - but...when needs must!

First post weyhey

I have always been the frivolous spender and have, in the past got myself and DW into alot of debt. with a small massive amount of persuasion I have finally come around to DW way of financial thinking.

we now both pay out wages into a joint account and that is used for household expenditure and then pay into another account a set amount to live on. the second account pays for all of the families clothes, nights/days out, presents and other treats. At the start of the month we pay in a balancing amount from the first account so it is always at £xxx on the first of the month.

we also worked out how much needed to be in the first account at the start of the month to pay bills food etc, and any extra is skimmed off and put into a savings account for holidays and rainy days. This method has enabled us to clear all of the debts I had ran up and now have a steadily growing savings fund. (I cant tell you feeling I had when I finally paid off and cut up the last credit card)

I am the higher earner by quite along way but have never looked at it this way. to me it is just the families money. ( it also takes away all of the "i paid all of the food this month" feelings)

the joint spending account works for me because if I did spend too much, I would actually spending DW's and DC's money so i dont.

anyhow. this all happened because we sat down one weekend and created budgets and then talked our way through them, without blame, but with an end goal in mind

This man is a profligate loser. Pay off his debts and he will soon be back for more and the same pattern will continue over the next 30 years.
Either leave him to stew in his own juice and run up his own debts but earn enough to move house in due course (I earned 10x my ex) without needing him if needs be or else take over complete charge of all his money and give him minor pocket money. If you pay his debts it's just like the wife who takes the husband back after adultery - it is taken by men to be a licence to stray in future.

Debt if married is joint. Bailiffs will chase the wife for the debt or the husband.

Ok so 8k. In debt terms you are lucky, that's still actually quite low. Might be high in your opinion but it is low, although I accept that's relative to earnings. Many don't worry til it's in tens....

It is pointless having half of it in savings but also debt. You need an emergency bit but having 4k in savings with 8knof debt isn't savings. It's just money that hasn't been paid out yet.

Not the same thing at all