To never want anyone to champion Jack Monroe again?

[SuperScrimper]

After what she has tweeted about David Cameron. here

Like him or loathe him to describe the way he talks about his deceased son as 'misty eyed' and used for political gain is disgusting.

The greatest loss any of us can imagine is the loss of a child. Shock horror, even politician have real feeling. It's just awful that she would say that about another parent.

I don't care what she can do with a bloody lentil. Something's are just too low.

I'm all up for reasoned debate and transparency.

What I'm not up for is cruelty. 'Misty eyed' was cruel. He is a parent, he has lost a child. I'm damn sure he is misty eyed because he loved his child and his child is dead, not because he working out how many extra votes every little tear will garner him.

I lose respect for anyone who can't make a reasoned argument without resorting to personal cruelty. Say he 'shuts down debate', say 'he has let down disabled people. But to essentially mock his grief? No. That, for me, is too far.

Party conference 2014

for me, this is personal.
I am someone who has relied on the NHS – whose family knows more than most how important it is…
…who knows what it’s like to go to hospital night after night with a child in your arms…
…knowing that when you get there, you have people who will care for that child and love that child like their own.
How dare they suggest I would ever put that at risk for other people’s children?…
…how dare they frighten those who are relying on the NHS right now?
It might be the only thing that gets a cheer at their Party conference but it is frankly pathetic.

He is clearly saying that because of his experience it is not reasonable for anybody to say that he would do anything that would reduce the National Health Service.

While it would be inhuman not to have sympathy for him, he is clearly not making a logical argument, and his words are not random private remarks quoted out of context - they are a central part of one of the most important speeches he makes in the year.

I don't expect anything from him as a bereaved parent. I do have expectations of him as a prime minister.

So setting aside what Monroe has said, do you think Cameron does shut down debate by invoking the memory of his dead son, whether intentionally or not, and if so, do you think he should stop it?

And for all of you who thinks it's ok, imagine looking in the eyes of a bereaved parent and calling their comments about their dead child 'misty eyed', you can even add in a little mocking head tilt if you want.

If you think you could behave like that, if you think it is decent to behave like that, then we are coming at this from very different places.

Oh come off it OP, Jack Monroe is not David Cameron's friend.

I also remember when he was on here for a web chat it was pointed out to him by Riven that her disabled dc was limited to six nappies/incontinence pants a day. She needed more than that and couldn't afford to buy extra.

He claimed he had no idea and that he'd sort it out.

So firstly his experience of living with a severely disabled child is different to most people's. either he's treated differently by his local care givers because of who he is or he has the money to pay for the extras, the care assistants, the hoist, the nappies without even noticing it.

Secondly he swanned round Rivens house for a good photo opportunity and iirc did fuck all afterwards to help her like he promised he would.

Thirdly he's then gone on to cut services even further.

Fourthly he makes me sick.

I find the "misty eyed" expression nasty, as others have said. she has a good point otherwise. Could have been expressed better.

I don't think it's 'decent behaviour' for David Cameron to attempt to privatise the NHS.

No one said it had to be a friend. Would you do it to anyone? Would you mock them?

Or would, if faced with them, actually spend a nano second thinking of a way to make your point without being offensive, without being rude and without being mocking?

And I'm no leftie. I believed the bastard and voted Tory. Won't make that mistake again.

NO ONE IS SAYING DC (and his wife) were not devastated by the loss of their much loved child. He is human, of course it has affected him deeply.
No one would wish such pain on another parent.

But the future of the NHS in this country should not be related to that occurrence in his personal life.

When even the discussion of the future of the NHS is affected then he should realise that his ability to function efficiently as a PM is being compromised and ask others to help him remain neutral on this.

Well, my child is dead and I agree with Jack. She died of cancer two and a half years ago, when she was 9.

We have first-hand experience of Tory policy/cuts and how they affected us and continue to affect friends of ours whose children have cancer.

Because our child was not terminal (even though she died less than 8 months after diagnosis), we did not qualify for DLA (which is now even more of a nightmare) for 3 months. We were eligible therefore, for FA when my husband had to leave his zero hours job to look after our other two children whilst I lived in hospital with DD1 (her protocol was ALL inpatient, months on end, no getting out and the nearest hospital that could treat her was 2 hours away). It's a gateway benefit.

Thankfully we were in a HA home or we'd have been evicted for non-payment of rent. It was winter. We subsisted on charity and what my parents could give us for months.

We have friends who have been left destitute due to Tory policy, all of them either disabled or have a disabled child.

He had it in his power to make things better for the disabled and disabled children.

He hasn't.

He's a disgrace. I would have no trouble telling him this, either.

Im in two minds about the "misty eyes" part of the comment. On face value it sounds nasty.

However he does get teary eyed when talking about him. Understandably. And nobody would complain if it was in a different setting, even in an interview about his personal life, etc. but it has no place in political debates. It makes people back off because nobody wants to be the one who made DC cry over his dead son.

I do believe he's truly devastated about his son. But he needs to keep his grief out of the political debates.

Yep. In levels of hurtfulness I think they are exactly the same. Just because you say something horrible in good language doesn't make it any less horrible. I can't really take someone seriously who uses Twitter to say unpleasant things about other people then starts complaining when people use it to nasty things to them.

The alternative is that he carries on dismantling the nhs bit by bit and nobody says anything. He does what he wants without any comment or protest because as soon as someone says something he starts commenting on how he'd never harm the nhs because of how well they looked after, blah, blah, blah.

I do not like jack Monroe.

But having been stood in front of DC when he made a well reported in the press comment I agree with her, he does do it. He shouldn't do it.

Oh yes sorry OP, I somehow imagined you'd said friend

Could I say this? well no, I said in my first post that I couldn't. I wouldn't retweet it either. But I understand Jack Monroe's anger and I am one of the fortunate ones, who has never (yet) been faced with a hungry child that I couldn't feed.

It was the Labour Party who gave us the scandal at Mid Staffs…
…elderly people begging for water and dying of neglect.

And before discussing his son he was evoking distressing images of the NHS under Labour - did he check with their relatives that he could use them in his speech? Having said that I am fairly certain all the parties would have tried to get political mileage out of Mid Staffs if they were in opposition. Politics isn't nice, but that is why many politicians try to keep their children out of it.

I think that in the context of what Cameron has said, in what I can't believe wasn't an intensively scrutinised and rewritten speech, and reductions in government spending, her comments are fair.

We all have the right to dare to question the prime minister.

Heard Jack on the radio and thought she was vile, self-opiniated, shouts and smug. All the things I detest.

Cameron has every right to share his life's experiences BUT, he has done nothing specifically to help parents of disabled children, so any reminiscences of his are not really relevant

You really can't see the difference between someone making a political point and someone just tweeting random abuse? You can't see that one, while considered distasteful by some is lawful and the other one illegal? Then I'm truly sorry for you aermingers and I'll leave you be because you're clearly not up to the debate.

I am also in two minds about the misty eyed bit of the comment viva for the same reasons. However, the fact remains her point is sound if not expressed very nicely and if we were to do as the op says and stop championing all the good stuff she does that would make us very foolish.

Judge the sentiment, judge the intent and you'll see who is manipulative, who is cynical and who is just downright horrible.

There maybe some truth in what she said but for a writer she wasn't very eloquent there was no need for the "misty eyed" comment.

Call me cynical but I wouldn't be suprised if she tweeted it so she gets an article commissioned on what she meant.

JM seems to be all for starting lively debates, but she bloody hates it when anyone criticises her in the slightest. Her blog is full of long rants against others who have dared call her middle class or challenged any of her statements.

I agree with lots of her political points. I just think she's terrible at expressing them and comes across as an idiot in these particular tweets. Plus her food in the Guardian looks fucking awful. I honestly don't know how she became a political figure or a chef.

I agree with her.

I suppose Jack Monroe could have checked her tweet with a speech writer, and maybe done some market research before using 'misty eyed'. That's what any sensible politician would do.

It was the Labour Party who gave us the scandal at Mid Staffs…
…elderly people begging for water and dying of neglect.

Yeah and what have the Tories done to sort it out? Its still going on. They're wasting money on ineffective CQC inspections which are purely a box ticking exercise and aren't getting to the root of any problems.