I am so angry and sad about this teenage pregnancy.

[ShockingBadHat]

A member of my extended family is pregnant. She's 17. She hasn't worked since leaving school and doesn't intend to ever. The boyfriend is older and 'on the sick' long term with a minor injury (think sprained wrist and you'd be on the right lines).

Her parents separated after she was born and she was removed from her mother by ss so lived with her father. They were recently moved to a brand new house by the HA. He pays very little rent as he keeps his wage from self employment low so he can claim HB.

She has now left the house and moved into a council B and B and is waiting for a HA house for herself, the boyfriend and the upcoming baby.

Her mother has never worked. Her father works very part time and claims full tax credits etc.

So this baby will be at least the third generation of this family to be born to parents who are completely reliant on the state BY CHOICE.

I am struggling with this so much, it's making me reevaluate all my left leaning, pro welfare principles.

How have we ended up with an entire underclass with such complete poverty of aspiration? How can we address it?

Aibu to feel so angry and sad about this? What a waste of a life.

[Iliveinalighthousewiththeghost]

of her not for.

[EEVEElution]

What a sad situation, it's a shame when people choose to bring children into the world in order to play the system, but it sounds like she hadn't had very good role models growing up.

Here's hoping the child will be the making of her and it all works out ok.

[Catsarebastards]

If her mother has accepted the situation then you should.

Her mother? Why would her mother's opinion of it matter or affect OP's opinion?

[Iliveinalighthousewiththeghost]

Also how dare you say a waste of a life. A beautiful life has been created. No life is ever ever a waste. I know a teenage mum and she is fantastic with her baby. Yes she was devastated at first as was her mum, but both her and the baby has flourished and she's never looked back.

[Iliveinalighthousewiththeghost]

Cats. Any moaning and getting angry about teenage pregnancies the girls mother does it. I.M.O.
Not a relative of the extended family.

[SolidGoldBrass]

Given how the rich not only play the system but have rigged it progressively more in their favour, I applaud people who are making choices that benefit them. Some of you smug, ignorant whiners might like to know that the amount of benefits claimed 'fraudulently' is less than the amount of benefits which people don't claim despite being entitled to them. And it is practically nothing when compared with the amound of tax evaded by large corporations and wealthy individuals.
This girl's having a baby, which is nice for her. She may choose to look for a job later on, or to have more kids and look after them herself (which is work, after all.) But the idea of 'work' as in paid employment is hugely overrated. A lot of jobs are pointless. A lot of employers are horrible. Refusing to work is a perfectly reasonable attitude when working is of no benefit to you (and don't start with bullshit about 'self-respect'. Being treated like a worthless serf, underpaid, messed about, put at risk, ripped off - these things do not increase your self respect in the slightest.)

[Catsarebastards]

Did you read the OP? The girl was removed from her mother by SS and has lived with her father since she was a baby.

[ExpectTheVeryUnexpected]

I understand where you are coming from Op it is frustrating and sad to see this mentality. It doesn't mean you don't care. I was lucky that I had extended family who showed that working hard was just what you did. But one of my best friends as a young teen had no aspirations other than to have a baby and get a house (she used to talk about this when she was 13 and I was 11) the same as her mum did. She moved into hostel accommodation at 16, found a boy who lived there who agreed to have a baby, and now lives in a three bed council house with her five kids and this boy. They've never worked a day between them legally (he has worked cash in hand in the past for a local pub and labouring) and get a lot of benefits. I think there should be more emphasis in high school tutorials about working, money, social housing, the costs of children etc. To help people see other options that they might not be encouraged toward at home. The girl in question above has six siblings herself and other than the youngest one so far all of them have gone on to leave home young and have children.

[MyOneandYoni]

I would urge caution, OP.
She is a vulnerable young NEET and will already be on the radar of SS.
She is a pregnant teen by an older man (in perhaps a not very stable relationship).
She will have Health Visitors and SS crawling all over her through this pregnancy and beyond. I would be very surprised if the child gets to school age without a lot of outside involvement.

Perhaps think about it from that point of view?

[LuannDelaney]

shockingbadhat does she have gcses? Could you investigate what her options are, or what she would like to do?
In a way having children so very young, when she is missing out on very low paid work, could put her in a position to enter the workplace with an older child/children who are easier and cheaper to work around and not have to take career breaks instead of promotions.
I'm sure that with the motivation of having children that she would like to offer the best to and support from you and local services, and by the sounds of it, dad and grandad for childcare, cheap accommodation, the world could be her oyster.
Don't write her off at 17.

[PacificDogwood]

SGB, I so agree with you.

Of course there are 17 yo who make good mothers and who benefit from having that responsibility early in life.
And of course there are people who abuse and cheat the system - the more damaging cheats to the country come from the rich and superrich.

Also, the point the OP is making is not about one individual 17 yo, much as she might be upset for her family member, it's about the wider picture.

[serin]

OP,

Have you thought what you can do to help her?

Also FWIW there are some medical conditions that seem pretty innocuous (like sprained wrist) but are actually anything but, see here CRPS

It is frustrating that people with conditions such as this are judged.

[dancestomyowntune]

When I discovered I was pregnant at 17 I really learnt who my friends were. The people who genuinely cared about me and those who didn't. The ones who felt I was "wasting" my life and clutched pearls and judged me I managed to do without in my life. When I lost my first baby I was devastated and hit a downward spiral, whilst those who had judged me harped on about it being "for the best".

Six months later I was pregnant again, and a mother at 18. My firstborn is now approaching 12 years old. In her own words she is "an overachiever", a talented performer, ballet dancer/singer, an academically capable child at the top of her grammar school class. She is friendly, loved, cared for and has two parents who against the odds have stayed together and grown closer as she has grown. She is a good role model for her three younger siblings and has an amazing work ethic that gives most adults pause for thought. She is involved in the community, raising money for charities that mean something to her and at parents evening this week we were told how it is highly anticipated that she will rise to prefect in a few years.

When I fell pregnant people were adamant I would be a terrible mum. I don't think I am doing too badly! I a SAHM but my husband (the father of all my four current children and the one I am currently pregnant with) has always worked to support us. The same job, for the same employer. I worked until dd1 was 3, and now help out at the dance school the children attend. My children have all the oppurtunities because we have worked together to provide them.

Being a mum at 18 made me. I am happy, my children are happy and we cope.

[Singsongmama]

Prettypictures - I'm willing to accept statistics and also that for many poverty breeds poverty but please don't be so arrogant as to state that I am "incorrect". What I offered was my opinion and while I accept yours (which appears quite defensive - again, just my opinion) perhaps you could accept mine.

The story of my friend might be in the minority but it shows that the cycle CAN be broken and it was hardly a "rags to riches" tale. She is a teacher who lives in a 3 bed semi. It was merely to illustrate that some people do aspire to more and succeed in their attempts to improve their lives.

[formerbabe]

dancestomyowntune

Good for you and that's great you and your dh are still together, but that is not going to be the norm for most teenage mums. Can I ask, how you would feel if your own dd was such a young mum in the future? I would be devestated if my dd became a mum in her teens, not because I think teen mums are bad mums but there is so much I want my dd to achieve besides motherhood.

[NeedsAsockamnesty]

I have seen a girl from school have a child every 5 years so she doesn't have to work. It's sad really because she's missing out on so much

How many kids does she have and are you sure that is the reason why she has one every 5 years?

It wasn't that long ago the IS to JSA switch was at 11y. So your friend has one 5yo and is currently pregnant. Any longer than that and it does not really work because it wasn't always 11 either.

[PrettyPictures92]

Singsong if you don't want to be called incorrect then don't be so arrogant as to say that things are "utter piffle" when they have been proven time and time again to be correct.

[EveDallasRetd]

My DNeice was a 2nd gen of not working parents.
She's never had a job.
She had her child, my DGNeice at 18.

Similar situation - my bro was feckless (amongst other things), SIL had a very hard and unsettled upbringing (although loads of love in that family). DNeice lost her dad (my bro) when she was only 14 in horrible circumstances, and SIL had other things to contend with, which meant DNeice suffered.

DNeice also has a debilitating illness that is getting worse, failed ATOS twice, (overturned now and is actually getting something - although they remain convinced that she should be able to find employment, despite the fact that she is bedridden 50% of the time). She had to move thanks to bedroom tax and is now confined to her living room because the house is not suitable for her needs.

Her grandparents rarely worked, her parents rarely worked, she has never worked.

But there it stopped. DGNeice is just 16, has a part time job in a fast food outlet and is going to college to get catering quals - she intends to open her own restaurant before she is 30

Maybe this child will 'break the mold' just as my DGNeice intends to. But even if she doesn't, it doesn't mean she's a bad person. Just a 'victim of circumstance' - there but for the grace of God and all that.

You don't need to understand. Just help.

[Singsongmama]

Prettypictures - so you are claiming that because you are born into poverty that you can't get out? That is simply not true. I said I accept that for -most- it is true but it is not certain. Some, albeit a minority, can and do break the cycle. There is no way you can argue that this is incorrect.

[WooWooOwl]

YANBU to be sad and angry that two people who are unemployed, who have no intention of becoming employed, and have no means of supporting themselves have chosen to have a baby. It's wrong, and it's selfish.

[Fingeronthebutton]

Did you really think that Labour ramped up the benifits out of the kindness of their hearts. It was for votes.

[LuluJakey1]

YANBU. I see it every day working in a secondary school in an area with high levels of deprivation.

We have lots of teenagers who come from known local famillies where no one works and they all live on benefits. I know some of them very well because my role is the 'care and guidance' aspect of education, as well as teaching. I rarely see anyone who is deprived materially - ipads, iphones, sky tv, 4 wheel drives, takeaways most nights, smoke, drink, blingy jewellery, holidays abroad. However, they are deprived in terms of aspirations in life. There is little belief life can be different or that they want it to be. Health statistics are poor. Children in our local primaries arrive at 5 and some can not dress themselves or use the loo, speak appropriately. Many never go to a dentist and adults with rotten and missing teeth are a very common sight. Neglect is the main reason for child protection cases here- inadequate parenting.
Last week an ex- student came to see me who has three children by three different dads. She is 20, the oldest child is 5. None of the dads see their children, she gets no child support because she told the CSA they were the result of one night stands (not true). She had the first one to get her own flat away from her mum- who has never worked. The ex- student does not work. The children are already a cause for concern because they are not meeting their development targets and the 5 year old has terrible behaviour issues. However, she smokes, has her nails done (£10.00 a week she told me, I don't know what it costs usually as I bite mine) , was driving a car newer than mine and telling me se has spent £250 on each of them for Christmas (don't know if it is true of course)
She was a clever girl at school but had so many problems caused by her own childhood and background.

The really sad thing is she is not unusual in the area of Sunderland where she lives.

I don't know what the answer is but the welfare state was never intended to be this. It is quite a hopeless picture.

[NeedsAsockamnesty]

Lulu.

Over egged a bit there. The csa would not even be contacting her haven't done for many years.

You have to apply to them its no longer a condition of obtaining benefits and even if it was it gets paid on top of benefits now and has done for many years

[LuluJakey1]

Just telling you what she told me. Her point wasn't about money, it was about not giving their names because she does not want them to be involved at all. My point is about the lack of financial support.

[ghostspirit]

i have not read all the thread. i think op is a bit judgemental. how do you know if its by choice did she get pregnant on purpose. how do you know she intends to never work. maybe she wont work now for the next few years or so (i don't know) but shes young enough to be giving a lot back when i child is a bit older.

the boy friend on sick. i find it difficult to believe the government would allow him to be on sick over a problem with his wrist. so maybe there is a deeper issue than the wrist problem.