Is this Discrimination (ASD related) Very upset

[Aeroflotgirl]

I am so upset I don't know where to start. DD 7.5 has just started Brownies 2 weeks ago, she has ASD and is supported by a carer. The Brownie leaders work in an Autistic school during the day. I received yesterday a text from her carer telling me that the Leaders wanted to give the children a talk on dd condition without her being there. This was 2 hours before she was due to start her session, so I paid for care she did not need as it was under the 24 hour cancellation period.

I was really upset, as it should not take 1.5 hours to talk to Brownies about her disability. I tried to contact the Brownie leader a few times and left a message. I then contacted the head of her care agency who knows the Brownie leader. It transpires that parents of Brownies have had issues with dd behaviour, like the stimming, hand flapping, and getting too close to children's personal space and the district commissioner as asked that the Brownie leader give a talk to the Brownies about ASD. DD goes with a carer who would have relayed to me if she had been violent or emotionally abusive which she had not, she does not display that type of behaviour. Both her sessions at Brownies have been positive, so I can imagine it was dd unusual behaviour. Apparently couple of girls have left the Brownies for no reason, which I presume because of dd.

I feel so hurt that others feel that way about dd, if she was in a wheelchair or had a disfigurement they would not get away with that, its like we have not progressed 40 years. Anyway dd is going next week with her head held high, these are not her issues and she has nothing to be ashamed about.

I am drafting a letter to the District Commisioner and head of Brownies and Girlguide in my area, it has been handled so badly. No representative from our end was asked to attend the meeting to see what was being said about dd. She was in a different Rainbow pack with a more experienced leader, and we had no issues, parents were so positive. I feel so upset

They should have asked your permission and discussed it with you if they were going to mention your dd but maybe they weren't/didn't. If the Brownie leader works in an autistic school perhaps she was just going to talk about her job and the children she works with. If that was the case they really didn't need your permission or approval. They also probably didn't talk about it for the whole session.

Chimes as a volunteer I am expected to adhere to all the regulations which apply to working with children in a paid capacity.

My son is disabled and takes part in a couple of activities run by volunteers - he is vulnerable, and it is important that the volunteers who help follow the same protocol that they would at his school. It is also important that if someone decides to take it upon themselves that they believe would be advantageous to him,, that they talk to me, his parent, who knows his full medical history and who would like to give my opinion on what is in his best interests.

For those who think it is okay for somebody to decide to share the OP's DD's personal medical details without their consent, may I suggest you consider how you would feel if your health history (e.g. including any STDs) was shared with your work colleagues without your say so?

Not that there is anything to be ashamed of in ASD (DS has it), but it helps to make that point that it is information which is personal, private, and protected by law...

If they were just talking about ASD in general, there would have been no need to exclude the OP's DD from the session.

It would have been appropriate to let the OP know so she could decide whether to send her DD but they should not have prevented her from attending the session.

OP doesn't know that they did discuss her DD's personal details though. They may have just talked about ASD generally. That wouldn't require consent.

I think it was a good idea to have a word with the other Brownies before she started. But it could have been a short talk the week before your DD started. They made a big issue of it which was totally not necessary. Sounds as if it was handled really badly.

The brownie leader may have felt that it would be easier to talk about ASD without OP's child present. She may also have felt that it would be easier for OP's child not to hear what she was saying, particularly as OP says her DD doesn't realise that she has ASD.

Whatever the Brownie leader thought she should have discussed it with the family first.

How can you do something that is supposed to be helpful without checking it IS helpful?

I agree that it would have been sensible to discuss it with the OP first. I don't necessarily think OP would be the best person to decide whether it would be helpful to the other brownies though. She isn't the one trying to run the Brownie group.

She may also have felt that it would be easier for OP's child not to hear what she was saying

That is not the leader's call. It is for the parent to decide.

She may also have felt that it would be easier for OP's child not to hear what she was saying

That is not the leader's call. It is for the parent to decide.

I agree it would be. However, as I said she may also have felt it would be easier for her to discuss ASD with the other children without OP's child present.

It's irrelevant whatever, whether it was better discussed with OPs dd present or not, nothing should have been discussed without consent. It's not for the brownie leaders to decide. They overstepped.

They can decide to discuss ASD in general without consent as long as OP's dd is not mentioned or referred to in any way.

They can decide to discuss ASD in general without consent as long as OP's dd is not mentioned or referred to in any way.

If they were not relating the discussion in any way to the OP's DD there would be no need to exclude her.

However it is dressed up, this matter was handled totally inappropriately by leaders who should have known better.

If they were not relating the discussion in any way to the OP's DD there would be no need to exclude her.

As I said the brownie leader may have felt it would be difficult for her to discuss ASD even in general with the children if someone with ASD (who doesn't realise she has ASD) was present. I do agree it was badly handled though and the whole thing should have been discussed with OP well in advance.

DS ended up leaving scouts. He was in the process of being diagnosed with ASD at the time and they made no allowance or concession for his obvious issues.

I'm not sure I would give DD the choice between staying or not. If she has ADS then she might not be able to pick up on the subtle social cues if her leader is being condescending or that "fake nice". Her carer will, but unless her carer is on top of her like a hawk at every single second, they might find a subtle way to be mean or make it clear she isn't welcome, or they might do that then laugh that she doesn't get it. They've already shown that the leader won't be professional.

As for discussing ASD, I'd venture to say it's a good idea and probably needed to be done. It's all well and good to tell a child to mind their own business, but that's not going to make them accept her. If they know why she's different and quirky compared to them, they'll be more understanding. It just shouldn't have been done the way it was.

If they know why she's different and quirky compared to them, they'll be more understanding.

That would be a decision for the child with ASD and their family. It would never be appropriate for a leader to explain a child's differences or quirks without express permission and collaboration.

This is disgraceful.
2 hour chat? without talking to mum first?
and I don't agree with billabong. just because beavers/brownies /scouts are volunteers , doesn't mean they can't make a mistake, not perform properly in their duties.

I understand the distress caused and sympathise, I do feel, however that the actions of the Browinie leader were not intended to offend. Brownie/scout and guide leaders are all volunteers, they are inherently good people giving up their own time for the benefit of other peoples children, therefore I think she would be genuinely sorry to hear of the distress caused.

Summerslong it's in Buckinghamshire and a school specialising in teaching children with Autism, dd goes to it. Yes I understand they are volunteers, but it should have been handled better. Anyway her new Brownie leader said that volunteer or not it should have been dealt with better, there are protocols and guidelines that should have been followed. and to complain to the district comissioner about it as it should not happen again. Thank you for all your support and it sad to read of some if your experiences.

I'm not sure it's a bad thing either... (said as a parent of a child with ASD so I definitely do understand how difficult it is ).

I remember being at school with a girl called Arti who had an epilepsy. No one knew until she had a fit in front of the whole class (I think we were about 8 years old). The next day, a whole hour was set aside where our teacher sat us down and talked about epilepsy, how hard it must be for Arti and how we were to support her. I remember it, nearly 20 years on, for how the teacher managed to turn us from just being very curious about what had happened to having real compassion and understanding for this girl. We went from thinking of Arti as a subject of curiosity (perhaps, if I am honest, not really in a kind way), to someone we went out of our way to support.

Hopefully, this will be the same situation for your DD.

Having said all that, I do agree that they might have given you advance warning, discussed with you and invited you to be there.

I am sorry summerslong