there's never been a worse time to be young and British, your screwed if your under 30

[lhldn]

OK the title is taken from a torygraph article, but I do find myself agreeing with it and being sad for the next generation.
www.telegraph.co.uk/men/thinking-man/11231796/If-youre-under-30-bad-luck.-Youre-screwed.html
We’re all becoming depressingly familiar with the results of these policies. The single worst (and most easily grasped) problem is housing. Our housing market has become an in-and-out club. If you’re over 50, in addition to your primary residence, you may well own a couple of buy-to-lets which will augment your already well-upholstered pension. If you’re under 30, you’re screwed.

If you’re under 30 in London, you’re super-screwed. You’ll be in your 40s before you’ve saved enough to buy a dump in Catford. And even then it’s likely that you’ll be outbid by a buy-to-let investor or, increasingly and tragically, refused a mortgage because you’re too old.

A long list of policies across three very different governments has got us here. The “one off” sale of council houses to make us all Tories in the 1980s - over two million homes that went cheap, often criminally cheap. The bottom three rungs cut off the ladder, the proceeds pocketed and the houses never replaced. Even so, property was still cheap back then – and if the housing market was anything like a free market, we might still be alright.

However, for all their devotion to the free market, our leaders have shown no interest in allowing the housing market to function this way. Rather, each year, we build a tiny fraction of what is needed ensuring prices march endlessly upwards. We have no coherent national housing plan. Our planning system is a mess. We have artificially low interest rates. We sell homes off-plan to foreign investors and don’t build enough to house the immigrants who are vital to our economy. The result is an cruelly dysfunctional market – and one which works brilliantly for your parents.

In tandem with this, over the last few years we’ve done a great job of increasing the wage gap between age groups. Guess who low wages hurt? Not people in their 50s and 60s. In fact, they actually help older people as they as more likely to be investors and employers. So, there’s no house for you, but the people who vote can afford a cleaner for their holiday home.

Housing is the most pressing problem

noddy yes indeed.

I bought my first flat in central London in the early nineties on just my wage (15k IIRC).
I didn't have a deposit so the bank gave me a 100% mortgage even though I'd only been working a few months (maybe three or four) and was on a two year training contract only, with no definite offer of a job at the end of it.

The mortgage was less than rent.

I had no debts from university or law school.

I absolutely think that multiple home owners should be taxed highly

All of this second home buying only makes sense in the face of scarcity. if you aren't willing to touch that, you won't solve the problem. Such a tax, even if it had all the intended consequences and no unintended ones, will not fix the supply/demand problem, and just be a small plaster on the problem.

something I read elsewhere ...

The state has removed, or made it impossible for anyone to literally fend for themselves. Land ownership is sewn up and that is at the root of people being able to provide for themselves or their families. Soil, shelter and water are a basic human right and about the only birthright that should be accessible by all humans. If the state removes that birthright via a capitalist economy, then it should provide the equivalent in monetary compensation to enable folk to buy those basic necessities.

You know, the 80s were a pretty bad time to be under 30 too. And none of my grandparents owned their own houses.

You know, the 80s were a pretty bad time to be under 30 too.
No it wasnt. I was an admin clerk in london and bought my own flat in south london at the time earning about £15k. Interests rates were up to 15% on mortgages at the time as well No inherited money or parental input.

I never know what we gain on these threads. Across a life time most of us will suffer very hard times indeed, recessions, redundancies, debt and worse. Everyone will whenever they live. Conditions in terms of having central heating etc are better now than when I was a child so on the whole people are better off but I don't think it was easy not in the early 80s. It might have got a bit better by the mid 80s once Thatcher's good work began to come to fruition but not in the early 80s when we first bought. It was terribly hard.

Anyway people are presented with how things are now. There is not much point in looking at whether the grass used to be greener.

We needed two professional salaries in the early 80s and could borrow 2.5x joint salaries. It was hard to find the loans and sometimes you had to have saved with that institution for 10 years. yes after that there have been some periods with 100% mortgages although anyone with sense tended to avoid those. The little house we first bought they cost about £300k today and you still need two professional full time salaries to buy them - outer London zone 5.

Well parent has lost marbles and will have to sell house to pay for the same care he would have had if he was on benefits so inheritance tax etc is of no concern to me.

"I never know what we gain on these threads. Across a life time most of us will suffer very hard times indeed, recessions, redundancies, debt and worse. Everyone will whenever they live."

My parents didn't. My dad died at 80 following a life of full employment in a satisfying professional job (he was a diplomat). This was despite coming from a working class family living on a council estate, and leaving school at 14 (my mother left at 15). My mother only ever worked part-time, and they could afford a detached house in a nice part of Surrey on my father's civil service salary. My dad got 15 years of retirement on his index linked final salary pension before he died at 80, and my mum is now living on her half of his pension, her state pension and a couple of annuities my dad took out for her. She has a bigger disposable income than my family and we have a joint income of nearly 80K.

Most of my mum's friends (late 70's and early 80's) are living comfortably on civil service pensions, have houses worth over 500K, shop for a hobby and go on regular holidays.

All three of the children in my house went to university - no fees paid. In fact both my sister and I got maintenance grants, as we went at the age of 21 after having lived away from home for a few years.

Really - people of my parents generation have had the best of it: affordable homes, an NHS which mostly met their needs, good pensions, a salary they could live on, free university for their children.

"Everybody I knew when I was in my 20s and 30s rented a room in some kind of shared house."

What - even those people with kids?

Relaxing rural planning laws would solve housing problems in a stroke

Come to my county. It's what they've done. Apparently we can't regard ourselves as a rural county any longer. Hundreds of thousands of new houses are being built. Fields and woods and hedges are being dug up.

if you are over 50 you may own your home and a couple of buy to let's as well

What a completely stupid sweeping generalisation. Ridiculous.

Me and dh are 50 and have 4 kids. Both older ones we had up support through uni. Younger ones teens and don't want to go thank god.

Older one had rented a house with gf and has a reasonable job. Other one still at home by choice but working and enjoying being cosseted in the nest!

Each generation faces it's demons.

We had to struggle through 2 previous recessions and house price slumps.

My parents had bombs dropping on them.

Stop whinging. It's no worse for the under 30s now than it ever was.

The state has removed, or made it impossible for anyone to literally fend for themselves. Land ownership is sewn up and that is at the root of people being able to provide for themselves or their families. Soil, shelter and water are a basic human right and about the only birthright that should be accessible by all humans. If the state removes that birthright via a capitalist economy, then it should provide the equivalent in monetary compensation to enable folk to buy those basic necessities.

It was long my dream, and that of many of my peers, to live modestly on the land- buying a small patch, either living in a caravan or building a little house, and leading an at least partially self sufficient lifestyle. Very, very few of us have achieved that, despite trying and trying. Quite a few people managed to buy land, but were unable to get planning permission. It's really difficult. Instead, most of the people I know are in private rented accommodation, many on housing benefit, costing the state hundreds of pounds a month .

mini, that is rare if your parents had no hard times. If your father worked abroad then may b e they avoided the awful periods the UK has had. We had 60% inflation over 3 year in the 1970s, a property crash and 3 day week, strikes left right and centre an 99% top rate of tax.

As amici says those of us who are a bit older than 20 somethings have done all kinds of things not everyone today is prepared to put up with , sleeping on sofas only, two jobs including weekends, in my case working until in labour back at work at 2 weeks, no tax credits or childcare help from the state. In fact I had no maternity rights even the 6 weeks on 90% pay with any of the children. That would be rare these days except for the self employed.

Most elderly people live on a state pension which is about £7k a year. Some have a private pension but not that many. The old tend not to be rich in the UK. My parents were okay in old age but my father worked full time to 79. He was not living on pension income from mid 50s. People my age tend not to have pensions and will work until we die. it is no bed of roses for any generation.

Some people of each generation get their finger out, endure hardship now for jam tomorrow, endure sub standard first tiny property purchases after years of graft. Others think they have a god given right to some perfect kind of first home which of course they never get.

All i can advise girls is in your teens just as I did and just as my parents did pick professions, not low paid jobs. Work realy really hard at university even if your friends are getting drunk. Save save save rather than spend spend spend even if your clothes are second hand. Don't go to restaurants and coffee shops and in that way just as the older ones of us on the thread did you may own a property.

i have heard this for the last 30 years but somehow every generation seems to come out ok and they will again not something I worry about for ds

everywhere I go in London and the suburbs they are building apartments some places are unrecognisable from a few years ago (parts of Lewisham, Greenwich Elephant and Castle to name a few)

we were screwed when I left school (late 80's) but most of us have managed to be ok

we have different expectations now we want it all we have a higher standard of living, we own more goods, how many of us drive cars that are old and is owning a property the be all and end all

and Catford has some nice properties, big 30's houses, a little suburban feeling it will soon be gentrified it is just the town centre that is horrible 10 years time it will be very different

though I do think the government needs to somehow control the rental market more (not sure how tax I guess) and not allow so many properties to be sold to foreign investors it pushes the prices up in central London so people start moving further out, costs go up there and so on especially when so many properties are left empty

i have heard this for the last 30 years but somehow every generation seems to come out ok.

Ffs you can't measure this over 30 years, all that tells you is boomers are doing well.

i'd rather be unable to afford a place than have the property crash we experienced in the 80's. we owed 40k and had no way of ever paying it back because the price of our house dropped directly we bought it - it reduced by 25%

in some parts of the country its still easier for people to buy now, than it was for us in the 80%s - so i think you are generalising a lot. though i agree i wouldn't want to be buying in london right now

ref buy to let - if there was decent pension provision in this country people wouldn't bother with buy-to-let - its stressful, risky.

London house prices have been a problem for decades. It isn't a new thing. The country is far too Londoncentric. And until that changes nothing else will. I don't think young people have it any worse these days. They just expect more.

Viviennemary read "The Pinch" by David Willets you will see the horrendous scenario that has been left for young people in the UK, this will get worse with the aging population.

Yes some young people may want a nice phone (which they maybe able to afford) but they might really want a home for a family. They maybe putting off having a family and marrying until they get a secure roof over their heads.

I said I have heard this for the last 30 years as in this is what was said 30 odd years ago when I was young but old enough to take notice. Young people will never get on the housing market maybe you have forgotten the rise on prices in the late 80's/early 90's followed by the crash (mainly caused by giving out ridiculous mortgages that people could not afford), young people would never be able to own their own home, young people will never be able to afford to have families yet most of us have been able to achieve this or to some degree (I have a flat not a house but that is life I am on my own and could not get a mortgage for a house unless I moved to an area I did not want to live, I made a choice)

not all people in their 50/60/70's own their own properties or even had the chance too my mum certainly didn't, she had a good job but was never able to get a mortgage because she was single

it is not all doom and gloom

London is constantly changing. 25 years ago no one with money would have lived in Peckham or parts of East Dulwich or even parts of Clapham. Crystal Palace, Harlesden, Tooting Bec are all places that have changed and people want to live there now

I also have a few friends who have taken out their first mortgages in their 40's. Rental properties is far too expensive in most parts of the uk especially London but the standards are so much higher than in the 80's is there is a difference between wage and percentage of what I was earning from then to now no not really I was living in awful damp flat shares as this was the norm

prices will fall again, people who could not buy may get the chance too, for the market to pick up low interest mortgages with little deposit will be offered and we will all say well it can't last and its true it just keeps going round in circles

dreaming of the sun. You owed only £40,000 (I assume mortgage debt) think of that price now. How much a mortgage would you need now?

Freudianslipper look at how the population is aging. Look at how much strain the elderly retiring population will place on the state (healthcare and pensions). Taxes will have to rise to fund this, this is on top of large mortgages if you wish to buy a property. I would not want DS in the UK when he is older.

From the office of National Statistics:
Key Points:

Focusing on the household reference person (HRP) who is the oldest full-time worker in most households or a person chosen from the household based on their age and economic activity status, 76 per cent of those aged 65-74 owned their own homes - the highest across all age groups. The proportion of owner occupiers among those aged 25 to 34 has declined from 58 per cent in 2001 to 40 per cent in 2011.

I will look out that book iggly2. Thanks for the recommendation.