there's never been a worse time to be young and British, your screwed if your under 30

[lhldn]

OK the title is taken from a torygraph article, but I do find myself agreeing with it and being sad for the next generation.
www.telegraph.co.uk/men/thinking-man/11231796/If-youre-under-30-bad-luck.-Youre-screwed.html
We’re all becoming depressingly familiar with the results of these policies. The single worst (and most easily grasped) problem is housing. Our housing market has become an in-and-out club. If you’re over 50, in addition to your primary residence, you may well own a couple of buy-to-lets which will augment your already well-upholstered pension. If you’re under 30, you’re screwed.

If you’re under 30 in London, you’re super-screwed. You’ll be in your 40s before you’ve saved enough to buy a dump in Catford. And even then it’s likely that you’ll be outbid by a buy-to-let investor or, increasingly and tragically, refused a mortgage because you’re too old.

A long list of policies across three very different governments has got us here. The “one off” sale of council houses to make us all Tories in the 1980s - over two million homes that went cheap, often criminally cheap. The bottom three rungs cut off the ladder, the proceeds pocketed and the houses never replaced. Even so, property was still cheap back then – and if the housing market was anything like a free market, we might still be alright.

However, for all their devotion to the free market, our leaders have shown no interest in allowing the housing market to function this way. Rather, each year, we build a tiny fraction of what is needed ensuring prices march endlessly upwards. We have no coherent national housing plan. Our planning system is a mess. We have artificially low interest rates. We sell homes off-plan to foreign investors and don’t build enough to house the immigrants who are vital to our economy. The result is an cruelly dysfunctional market – and one which works brilliantly for your parents.

In tandem with this, over the last few years we’ve done a great job of increasing the wage gap between age groups. Guess who low wages hurt? Not people in their 50s and 60s. In fact, they actually help older people as they as more likely to be investors and employers. So, there’s no house for you, but the people who vote can afford a cleaner for their holiday home.

Housing is the most pressing problem

I do feel for young people, yes.

They are trying to make a go of their lives in a country with high housing and living costs, whilst the job market comes under huge pressure from global competition.

Benefits and public services are being decimated...

Maybe the current generation will get their revenge when they are in power and the generation above are pensioners? Young people just need to leave London and start colonising a new city.

There is enough housing it's just not properly shared out, government policies have allowed the rich to hoard property pushing up the price so ordinary folks can no longer afford to live in it.

We need a land tax and rent controls, a properly regulated private rental sector.

I forget where but somewhere in Europe if a property is left unoccupied for a year it becomes the property of the local authorities and is turned over to social housing.

Everyone has a RIGHT to secure and affordable housing, it's a basic need like health or education, not a privilege for the wealthy few?

I work in care, as a manager. Quite a few of my staff are in their early 20's and round here housing is mid priced. My staff are paid a little above the living wage on basic, with opportunities for a couple of pounds extra at weekends. They move back home to save up a deposit on a flat or house, they get married and have children and seem to manage OK on what is usually one salary in the mid 20k range and what they earn on top. They sometimes go on to do nurse or social worker training. On the whole they are an optimistic hard working lot. I'm sure all this is true in London but in the regions young people on not too great incomes can still afford somewhere to live.

Yes, every generation feels hard done by. I remember paying £55k for a cramped but nice Georgian town house when I got married, my boss had bought "The Old Rectory" in that town for £2k when he got married in 1960, and had tennis courts and a swimming pool, some things never change.

My sons are 23 and 20, one is a student and one is at work, they have a better lifestyle that I did at that age, we used to make half a pint last all evening and a trip to the chip shop was a treat. Because owning their own homes isn't going to happen just yet they are more relaxed about life. My generation wanted the sausage factory path to marriage, babies, a career and a nice house before 30, which was very stressful to achieve.

Oh and in response to your title, I think you'll find 1914 and 1939 were actually pretty bad too. At least now when you sit in your rented house you're not worried someone's going to drop a bomb on it, or that you'll never see your brother/husband/son again.

Or that you'll lose your job when you get married.
Or be spat at in the street if you leave your husband or have a child out of wedlock.
Or be criminalised if you are homosexual.
Or legally be descriminated against if you are female, or black.

And so on.

Actually, the more I think about it, the less I agree with you.

Second home tax like

The private sector drives the housing market such that there will never be a good time to buy ever again.

Rather than constant building there is dramatic halts and continuations while screwing local authorities into reducing their % of social housing, overheating the rental market.

They had that demonstration in London that you could build a reasonably priced house - what happened!?

Every generation profits from technological advances but I think it's rather disingenuous to suggest that the reason people can't afford house deposits is because they own a £300 iPhone.

People can ignore what's happening and think "I'm alright Jack" but I am both saddened and worried by what the future holds for my children. Already education is becoming hyper competitive - children are expected to jump hoop, after hoop, after hoop. If you stumble then you best hope that your parents can bail you out because there is no such thing as an entry level job any more - "starting roles" require a degree and 3 years work experience.

Nimbyism prevents the building of needed houses, profit-hungry companies sell the only new houses to foreign investors rather than those who desperately need somewhere decent to live and politicians refuse to do anything about it because they don't want to upset vested interests.

Quite a difference to the 1950's when the big political money was on the ability to promise new houses to young voters. stephentall.org/2014/02/19/18-posters-in-which-the-conservatives-promise-to-build-more-houses-the-last-one-appeared-in-1979/

However the housing market is not the fault of any particular government and is the product of a free market economy where we are unfortunately prepared to pay more and more to own housing

Utter tosh! No market is free, the whole fucking game is rigged to benefit the rich few at the expense of everyone else.
The UK is the most inequitable country in Europe ?

I work in planning and do a lot of public consultations.

The only people that ever get involved - and I am talking about consultations that will affect the development of an area for the next 30 years - are the elderly. Many houses do not get built because of nimby attitudes but if the younger generation cannot be bothered to get involved (or vote for that matter) then what can they expect.

Out of interest, Bohemond - when do you hold your consultations? In our area most of the council meetings are held Monday - Friday, 9am-5pm which I understand but it prevents anyone working regular hours from turning up.

if the younger generation cannot be bothered to get involved (or vote for that matter) then what can they expect

Probably because the old people have the time, while the young are struggling just to keep fed and a roof over their heads.

I still think aspiring to own a property is the right thing to do as it gives you choices. Renting is very expensive and if you are shelling out a fortune on rent you can't afford to save.

I have advised my children to have fun and travel until they are 22, whether that's whilst they are at University or working as an Apprentice. Then knuckle down and save like mad whilst living at home and with the aim of getting on the property ladder by their late 20s. They won't be a afford to live where we live as the cheapest 1 bed flat would cost £275K but if they are prepared to live in the neighbouring county similar properties cost £125K.

Sadly London is no longer for living in, its for commuting to or being a tourist.

What would your solution be re the housing situation? (I agree with your post by the way). I think we need to massively tax second homes. Also need to (somehow) stop people not living in UK (especially London) from snapping up all new housing stock. If we don't do something about that, it doesn't matter if millions of homes are built, the people that need them won't be able to afford them.

how about build more homes? Remove the ridiculous red tape to home building.

It does matter if a million homes are built. If a million homes are built, the prices will plummet.

I think you also have to remember that many of those with second homes have bought them for their children who they know will find it more difficult to get onto the property ladder.

True and understandable, but not reassuring. This is not the mark of a fair society with equal opportunities for all.

When you think about it, it's an aristocratic system in which opportunities are inherited, and the "have nots" are locked out.

Nimbyism prevents the building of needed houses, profit-hungry companies sell the only new houses to foreign investors rather than those who desperately need somewhere decent to live and politicians refuse to do anything about it because they don't want to upset vested interests.

your second problem is caused by the first. All this makes perfect sense in the face of a housing shortage.

atticusclaw - not sure which young people you are talking about? I've been using the same secondhand phone with a cracked screen now for 4 months, every penny goes into the pot and it will still be years till we manage to scrape even the 5% deposit together. Its so tiring and disheartening always saying no;always choosing the cheapest option; going without....
I am not surprised people don't even try to get on the blasted ladder, I often wonder why we are bothering (and then I remind myself its because we are sick to death of having to move so frequently, of being shafted by estate agents bills, of not being able to decorate our son's rooms....)

The issue is not owning vs renting the problem is that both are unaffordable.
Treating housing as an investment vehicle is inherently bad for society, because it encourages the rich to hoard property and inflate the price .
?
We don't have a shortage of housing we have an unfair system for the allocation of housing. ?

I think you have to be pretty short sighted and ignorant to think now is the worst time to be young and British, especially as we've just commemorated the centenary of World War 1. 1914 was a pretty dreadful time to be young and British. As was most of history until very recently.

I think a significant part of the population is being persecuted and driven into worse poverty by coalition policies and global economic and political trends of the past two decades but they are not necessarily the young.

I think if you are a British AB NT graduate under 30 with no dependants then maybe you ought to take a good look at the world around you before going on about how hard done by you are. The housing and employment situation in the UK are dire in many areas but there is much that can be done to try and effect change.

As to housing: if you own a home one day you will want sell it and if you aspire to be a homeowner you aspire to be a seller one day.

And when that day comes you will want the best price you can get. You won't care if the buyer is a second-homer or a buy-to-letter.

If your pension fund owns shares in a developer company you won't care if they make profits by selling off-plan. Even to Johnny Foreigner, don't you know?

Agree we've got to break NIMBY, NODAM, and SOBBY (some other bugger's back yard) and get building going.

I hate the idea that you can get a house by scrimping on essentials or walking rather than catching the bus or indeed that life is what you make it and you've just not 'made it' when it seems to me that the entire economy has been mishandled and run with perverse aims/ends in mind

house prices were inflated to keep the 'feel good' factor going, the economy and banks were manipulated to continue this and are now being manipulated to keep them up and prevent the normal/natural cycle from occurring.

There was no really way the average person could know this was going to happen

Look at previous threads on here as to how many people could afford to buy the house they live in now, look at how many are on interest only or 30 + year mortgages (and look at the interest rates compared to usually)

look at how many people have multiple mortgaged properties that under 'normal' situations they would never be allowed near

it has also been said again as per previous threads that aren't the generation in question unique in that they are perceived by most measures as having had it better than/leaving subsequent generations in a worse place than they experienced.

We do not live in a socialist utopia where there are equal opportunities for all without any impact from external factors such as inherited cash (whether thats 2k or £200k). We never will live in such a place (because such a place does not and has never existed.)

We can control certain things though. We can control the things we spend our money on (and yes sorry but I would never in a million years have bought a £300 iPhone (with attached monthly phone bill) when trying desperately to save for a house!), we can vote for policies which are attempts to control the housing market. We can engage in our communities and make our voices heard.

Yes its hard for young people but they don't have to have everything all at once and many of them seem to want to.

My friend's DD frequently complains about the fact that she can't afford a house. She has more fancy clothes, nights out, beauty treatments, gym visits, takeaways, gadgets and gizmos than I will ever have.

I agree with suzanne thought it had been proven that we don't have a shortage of housing just unfair allocation

remember high house prices transfer wealth from the young to the old and the poor to the rich they are exactly what 'we' as a society don't want.

The only people who benefit are downsizers, think about it a house is for most the most expensive thing they will ever buy why on earth are people celebrating the fact that prices are high? we should want them to be as low as possible.......

have said for years we need to tax rental income gross of the majority of expenses just like PAYE income is for the vast majority.

Doesn't everyone think they're screwed when they're under 30 though? I'm 41 and doing ok, but I certainly wasn't in my 20s!

I saved every penny I had, working a horrible job I hated from age 16-19. Then I had enough for a deposit on a flat which I could only afford by letting out a room. It was a rough area, and I had no carpets or furniture other than a mattress. Are there young people doing that now? I don't know any. I used to buy a bag of potatoes & a few tins of beans to make dinners for a week. It was pretty hard.

I'm in scotland, but in a city, so a deposit shouldn't be too bad.

are you gifted with second sight Atticus?
you are claiming to know the future

I think it is entirely possible that the future will look utopian in comparison to today.

Things may never be perfect but they can certainly get a Damn sight better.

That which we regard as natural and inevitable, such as inheritance may be completely turned on it's head.

Paradigm shifts can and do happen ?

My friend's DD frequently complains about the fact that she can't afford a house. She has more fancy clothes, nights out, beauty treatments, gym visits, takeaways, gadgets and gizmos than I will ever have I don't have any of these things, I have a £5 old phone a month, and I can't afford a deposit or a house. I think you just have to accept you were lucky and really be quite humble about that. My mum was a SAHP, my dad came home from his job at 4pm and they afforded a 5 bed house. Those days are gone. My mum tells me we work much harder than they did to stand still, we both work full-time in professional jobs and still can't get a house around here (more than 4 times our income). Don't be smug and imagine it is all down to your hard work and the rest of us aren't working hard, how rude!