to not want to make a round trip to London (from Cheshire) the Sunday before Xmas?

[tallulahdula]

Apologies for the long thread - I have a dilemma. My dad and step mum live in London and have asked today if DH, DS, DD and I would like to go and have a Christmas get together with them on Sunday 21st December with my other brothers and sisters (siblings have no kids between them). He hasn’t seen much of his grandkids this year due to ill health.

The day would involve drinks at his flat then lunch out. They live in London, we live in Cheshire. He lives in a beautiful flat with low tables covered in glass ornaments, white carpets etc etc. DS is 15 months, typical boy and will be crashing around the place, putting small items down the loo, emptying kitchen cupboards, climbing the xmas tree. It is not a child friendly flat and sitting down to a 2 or 3 course lunch in a restaurant as well (it’s a very smart one) will be so stressful. DH and I will be doing everything trying to keep DS sitting at the table (Dad and SM have Victorian very firm ideas about how children should behave) whilst trying to have a conversation with the rest of my family.

I feel I should go because it would make my dad so happy (has just had the all clear from illness) but it will be so stressful for me and DH. It will also involve a round trip to London in a day the Sunday before Xmas. DH and I have work on the Monday and DD’s bday party and our streets Xmas drinks are on the Saturday before (have offered to help organise/do the catering for the party), so we can’t extend the stay in any way.

Should I just get over myself and make the effort? AIBU? He has said we could arrange something in the new year if we can’t make it.

oh and if you go alone, you might have a really nice day catching up with siblings and your dad, having prper conversations. This might be a lovely day, alternatively, you might spend the day trying (and failing!) to keep your DCs well behaved, gritting your teeth and smiling even though you are having a shit day.

Your dad and your Siblings might say they would like the DCs there, but after 5 minutes, the novelty of 2 small DCS who are ruining the day for everyone else will wear off. You've said yourself, they don't like children being children,so they wont enjoy them being bouncy.

Go to this family meet up alone, have a proper family catch up, then arrange a weekend in London or a weekend your dad visits you in the new year doing things focussed on the DCs.

at what point do we stop living because we have children?

Having a shit time toddler wrangling in unsuitable locations is not what I call "living"

I've made more excuses with each toddler, and my life has improved immeasurably.

How old is your DD, OP? I think bringing her to the grown up family event without her pesky little brother offers nice chance for a mum and daughter away day at Christmas.

I am so with you everything!

I have three older children and they were pretty well behaved, but I still wouldn't want to subject us all to trying to get them to sit nicely through a 2-3 course meal in a posh restaurant with people shooting dirty looks at them each time they 'misbehave'.

I also think if your dad wants to see you he is possibly as capable of travelling to you as you are of travelling to him?

The dad who has been ill all year, and only just had the all-clear, you mean wobblyweebles?

Your Dad sounds like a reasonable man. Have you asked him whether the meal could be moved to somewhere a little more child friendly like Italy or Spain or Greece ?

Once you're out of the toddler years you soon forget just how wearying it can be. If your Dad knew how anxious you were surely he'd enable you to come by making a few tweaks to the day. And surely your siblings would help out, wouldn't they? Honestly, there's one demanding 19 month old and a million adults, it really should be possible for you all to get together.

I am doing the reverse of this. Cheshire on 20th and back South on 21st. Been doing this for years so everyone gets to see each other but have their own Christmas. The snow was bad one year so cancelled but otherwise wouldnt miss it.

I did it with 6 week old baby and it was fine. DD is 2 now and did it recently. Use a high chair, well timed run around and toys, books and crayons.

If you are worried about going to the flat then skip that bit and after a run around in the park go straight to restaurant.where you have prebooked a high chair.

The traffic will be in your favour.

In answer to the question, the point you stop "living" (as in, being able to do nice relaxing adult focused days and expect dcs to just fit in), is between when they first become mobile and about 2.5-3years old. Before/after, that sort of day would be fine, still not fun for the dcs, but ok.

During that period, you have a shit time at events like this or you have a good time by leaving the dcs elsewhere.

I think you should go too, but as someone else suggested then perhaps warn your Dad first that it might be easier all round if they put breakables out of reach.

I wouldn't hold out too much hope of the train though. We live in Cheshire too and very recently DH and I decided on a day trip to London on a Sunday to see an exhibition. The very earliest train we could catch didn't get in to London until about 11 am (in the event it was after 12 due to an incident at Watford) Doesn't leave you with very much time.

Yy to deciding not to have a shit time.

FWIW I think teaching children to be quiet in restaurants by giving them lots of distractions is short-sighted - like teaching them to endure car journeys with DVD players and frequent stops.

Better by far to increase their exposure gradually so that by, say, age 7/8/9 they can manage without help and join in the conversation.

I think doing long car journeys and expecting quiet behaviour in a restaurant is too much!

But if you can find time to give him a good run around as well, it may be more do-able. So starting the journey the night before, going by train, or organising some walking (parking further away) and maybe a quick visit to the park - basically planning, could make it work.

I would definitely go by train (only 2 hours if you get on in Wilmslow or another stop along the line) - so much less stressful than driving which could easily take you over 4 hours. If you can stay over the night before or after, then all the better.

It will be stressful taking a little one to a smart restaurant, but surely your dad will want to see him? If not, is there anyone you could leave him with for the day?

I've three children, there's no way that I would have taken any of my boys on a trip like that. I would go by myself and then invite them all to you in the new year.

take the train. Obviously I don't know where you are in Cheshire, but Chester to Euston is two hours, no change. Otherwise you are talking motorways on the sunday before xmas - don't even think about it.

then child can toddle, be amused, etc etc.

not sure about ages in a restaurant though unless he'll nap for some of it?