Please help, customer care appointment from hell tomorrow

[wwwwd]

Have name changed again.

Recently posted on here about customer who cancelled my contract two weeks in to it because he wanted to get shut of the cleaner I had employed to clean his offices. However I explained the TUPE law which means her job goes to the incoming firm and he is not happy.

Friday was interesting, he emailed me to tell me he is suspending the contract on no pay until the end of the notice period (got 2 weeks left to run) unless I remove cleaner.

Have repeatedly asked what is the problem with the cleaning as when I audited the site last week I thought she was doing a brilliant job. Problem is the offices need 30 hours labour a week and he will only pay for 12. As of yet he is refusing to email me with the details of the defective cleaning which means I cannot correct them as I have no idea what they are.

Spent Friday on the phone to Peninsula Business Services (thank goodness I have these people to help me) and consulted with a civil litigator to find out whether suspension with no pay equates to unlawful termination of contract, which it does and I have a court claim. I had to pay to speak to the civil law advocate.

Drove 20 miles over to the site to get a text that he is now not suspending me (think this may have been down to the email the lawyer advised me to write) and instead I am being called in to a customer care appointment tomorrow.

At this meeting I will no doubt be pressurised into giving them a refund for no reason and sacking someone who I think is doing a good job.

Any advice? Posted here for traffic. Dreading tomorrow.

Well I admire you for taking the b*stard on, what a complete ARSE!

The sumatriptan has helped massively. The scariest part of the migraine was the postdrome. The headache had gone yesterday but I did not know what year it was. Today I phoned the NHS 111 and the operator asked me my address and I struggled with that. NHS 111 said emergency appointment with GP and since my first sumatriptan my brain has started to function again. I was getting really scared I had suffered a stroke as not knowing what day or year it is was pretty scary.
I think this withholding pay is their attempt to get some leverage. I have enough cash in bank not to need immediate payment so if they want to play this game they can crack on. Late payment fees will be added on as in the T&Cs of the contract.
Cannot wait until the month's notice is up and I am out of there! Bit scared about getting my equipment back but I will ask the cleaner's son who works as a security guard to get it for me.

Recently posted on here about customer who cancelled my contract two weeks in to it

Did the contract not specify a trial period during which either party can cancel?

His last cleaner did 4 hours cleaning, you say he needs 30 hours and your cleaner can't get it done in 12. What if he is actually right? I mean, that's a big jump in hours. Why do you get to decide a client needs 30 hours of a service and so if they only pay for 12, their complaints re poor service are unjustified?

I'm playing devil's advocate. You do sound rather confrontational. Its not a matter of having some business advisors on your side, its about establishing and maintaining good client relations and knowing when to cut your losses and walk away without causing damage to your reputation sometimes. The client does sound genuinely unhappy. You didn't help yourself by not attending the suggested meeting - you didn't need a lawyer with you but just a friend.

I'm guessing the client is annoyed because he wants to get on with running his business, not to have this hassle and a cleaning company that isn't doing the job he wants. You know this really isn't worth pursuing legally and talk of him having to pay for your lawyer is just nonsense?

I have not been confrontational at all. In fact I am doing my best to avoid a confrontation.
What makes me decide on the number of hours I quote for is the size of the offices, the number of staff, the number of toilets, kitchens and communal areas etc.
I cannot just quit because of employment law, I would risk a tribunal as a dismissal now could be argued as a breach of TUPE. Why on earth would I risk putting myself in the tribunal court?
I never deliberately over-quote. On another one of my contracts I quoted 12 hours a week as it was filthy when we started, but now we have got it up to standard I did a site audit last week and dropped the hours to 10. That will dent my profits but on principle I would never have a client paying for more hours than they need. The client would have probably been none the wiser if I had kept the hours at 12 but why should someone pay for more than they need?
There is no trial period in my contracts, nor is there in my competitors'. In fact I am unusual in the cleaning industry to only have 1 month's notice, all my competitors specify 3, apart from Dublcheck (a massive, highly respected firm) who specify 60 days.
I will be pursing it legally in small claims and I do not need a solicitor to do that.

As for claiming what I am saying is nonsense, this is the advice of several posters on here, plus a solicitor, plus my HR advisers.

I'm a solicitor and I would not recommend a client in your position pursuing this as a breach of contract in court. Its not worth the risk, and going about saying things like you will get him to pay for your legal fees is what makes it nonsense.

He has repudiated the contract. It sounds as though you have evidence. Simply write to him saying that if he doesn't pay then you will hold him to the one month notice period and invoice him for that, then do a Small Claim if he does not pay.

It sounds as if the contractual relationship has broken down beyond repair and he simply doesn't want you there any more. You are hardly in a position to compel specific performance. Beyond that, I don't know what else you are looking for.

Do you really have no other contracts you could TUPE your employee onto? No-one he's annoyed, being dragged into TUPE of someone else's employee after 2 weeks of an unsatisfactory contract!

Is your contract for 12 hours or for 30? If its for 12 and you thought you couldn't do the job in that, then why take it on? And how big are these offices that they need the equivalent of one full time employee just to clean them?

Sorry, but all the rest is just hyperbole. Be careful you are not identifiable by posting so many contract details on a nationwide forum too.

What happened is I did the quote and they said the maximum they would pay for is 12. I said that I would do that on the condition it was one 12 hour shift (2 cleaners doing 6 hours) at weekend when the building was empty, as that was the only way the timing could have worked. They accepted that and the day I started changed it to several shifts in office hours. We could have managed one decent clean in an empty building, but when several shifts a week have to be done, tasks like the toilets need repeating every shift, leaving less time for everything else.
The contract is for 12 hours.
The reason I did not want to attend the meeting is I suspected it would be an ambush, tons of them vs me and an attempt to batter a refund out of me or strong arm me into sacking someone who is doing a good job. I do not have anyone else to take with me. DH is severely disabled and I have no family.

I am staying until the 1 month's notice is up and then getting my kit and leaving. I cannot wait. This whole thing has really upset me. Cleaner will not move to another contract as it either clashes with her other jobs or is too far on the bus.
If it were not for TUPE I would grab my stuff and go now, but HR advisers say this is a risk of unfair dismissal.

Your cleaner needs to be a bit more flexible, I think.

I wish she was, I would love to move her to another site but she refuses, so I am stuck.

Not a lot that you can do if she's not playing ball

Why on earth are you employing staff without stipulating that you as the employer are free to place them wherever you have a contract?

I'm not Phaedra. There is a mobility clause that allows me to place a cleaner up to 25 miles from their home address. She signed this in the contract. However enforcing it is an entirely different matter. She has been told she needs to move and she is not for budging. I have tried, I have explained it is in the contract, I read the contract to her before she signed it and she nodded happily when I read it. However when I pointed this out to her she claimed she was nodding merrily away not understanding a word I was saying as it is not her first language, even though I told her she should only sign if she fully understood it.
To be fair I once lived in a foreign country for a year and my grasp of French was selective for the situation I was placed in.

Well the party really got started today!

Was due to be my last day but got email from client this morning stating they had a leaky toilet and the plumber had stated that this must be due to use using acidic descaler on their toilets.

We do not use it and have not used it for over a year when there was a near miss incident with a cleaner who I saw using it without gloves, so I banned the use of it back then based on the near miss so there would be no chance of someone having an accident with the stuff.

Texted cleaner to check had she bought any products at supermarket and took them in and she said no.

All H&S training is carefully documented and cleaners sign a statement to say which fluids they are trained in and they must only use these fluids.

Despite assuring client we had not brought it on site (although previous cleaner did leave a few bits and bobs around) he said that they would now be doing an inspection of the cleaning fluids.

DH reckoned they were going to plant some toilet acid and then do us for the plumbing fees.

As they had not been paying invoices I just went, grabbed my stuff and put the cleaner on one days paid authorised leave.

Just relieved it will now be over. I have 12 months of suppliers invoices that show we have not used toilet acid anywhere since the near miss.

Unbelievable.

I think your dh is right. The sooner you no longer have to deal with thwm the better!

DH is not academic but is very very shrewd.

He had been saying for the last few weeks they would have one last trick up their sleeves.

Fortunately as they had not paid my invoice I have the contractual right to pull the contract immediately without liability to either party.

Will still have to pay my lady for today as she is not on a zero hours contract, but she is happy, she just got paid to have a relaxing afternoon.

The can try to take me to court for the alleged damage but I have a signed statement from the cleaner which I get all my staff to do when they start work stating what chemicals they are allowed to use and that they have been trained in the safe use. It even states in there that they are not allowed to use any chemicals they have not been trained in using.

Just glad it is all over. He was hurling insults at me today when I went to get my stuff but I just kept saying that I was not engaging in conversation with him.

Emailed and asked when invoice would be paid 4 hours ago and as of yet no response so passing it to debt collectors Monday

CANNOT BELIEVE IT THEY HAVE PAID IN FULL!

Thought that one would end in small claims but threatened them with debt collectors and they coughed!

Thank God I will never have to deal with them again.

Great outcome, you must be so relieved. Really pleased for you... is it too early for ?

I am over the moon and my lady kept her job too!

Take home lesson from this is to be more careful when choosing customers. If they want something for nothing, politely say no and move on.

Great update!