Please help, customer care appointment from hell tomorrow

[wwwwd]

Have name changed again.

Recently posted on here about customer who cancelled my contract two weeks in to it because he wanted to get shut of the cleaner I had employed to clean his offices. However I explained the TUPE law which means her job goes to the incoming firm and he is not happy.

Friday was interesting, he emailed me to tell me he is suspending the contract on no pay until the end of the notice period (got 2 weeks left to run) unless I remove cleaner.

Have repeatedly asked what is the problem with the cleaning as when I audited the site last week I thought she was doing a brilliant job. Problem is the offices need 30 hours labour a week and he will only pay for 12. As of yet he is refusing to email me with the details of the defective cleaning which means I cannot correct them as I have no idea what they are.

Spent Friday on the phone to Peninsula Business Services (thank goodness I have these people to help me) and consulted with a civil litigator to find out whether suspension with no pay equates to unlawful termination of contract, which it does and I have a court claim. I had to pay to speak to the civil law advocate.

Drove 20 miles over to the site to get a text that he is now not suspending me (think this may have been down to the email the lawyer advised me to write) and instead I am being called in to a customer care appointment tomorrow.

At this meeting I will no doubt be pressurised into giving them a refund for no reason and sacking someone who I think is doing a good job.

Any advice? Posted here for traffic. Dreading tomorrow.

It will have come as a surprise to him.
I did the site for 2 weeks and then did 2 shifts with her and on her second unsupervised shift he just cancelled the whole contract. Most customers get on the phone if they are unhappy and ask me to retrain or change the cleaner. He did not do this, just cancelled totally out the blue which has really annoyed me.
My lawyer says it is nothing to do with the cleaner and they have just found someone cheaper.

I worried it might have been on the phone, bastards.

Good for you for quitting though, many wouldnt have done.

You are not in the wrong if he won't tell you what you have done wrong. It's your business,you feel that the cleaner is doing a good job.
And his last cleaner walked out... Why?
The place needs 30 hours cleaning but he will only pay for 12. That's his look out not yours.
He wants something for nothing.
Don't let it get to you. See what he has to say then go from there. But don't let it stress you. You have employment law on your side.

What happened to the last cleaner is not that clear. I only got the information second hand from an employee who works there. Apparently she was an older lady who had done cash in hand cleaning for years and also cleaned the former MDs house prior to his death last year. She was very well liked by the former MDs family and the employee I spoke to said she was a lovely lady but was struggling to do the job and this was partly due to being in her 70s.
She was only given 4 hours to clean the offices and suddenly quit without notice. She had been complaining to this employee she could not do the job in 4 hours and needed more time.
Strangely when I spoke to the client about what happened to the last lady he denied that she ever existed. I am guessing that is because she was cash in hand.

Are you going/have you been to the meeting?

Peninsula have advised I do not go without first being given an agenda or a detailed complaint of what is wrong with the cleaning. They also agreed with one poster on here that I should only go with legal representation and make it clear that they will have to foot the bill for that.

I bet that went down well!

Stick to your guns, this asshole is being a complete bully and the more you stand up to him, the better. Good luck :)

They sound like tossers.

I'm not sure on what basis you think you can reclaim legal costs against them though. And frankly a cleaner who has been employed for two weeks and speaks poor English is very unlikely to bring a claim under TUPE.

While the lady may be unlikely to bring a claim under TUPE herself, that does not give the client the right to trample over her rights because he's getting the service he is paying for rather than the miracle it seems he expects.

I'm so grateful there are lovely bosses like wwwwd, who will stand up for the rights of their staff even in the face of such shocking behaviour from clients.

According to Peninsula she does have the rights to a claim and ACAS do have translators who work for them. I guess it all boils down to whether or not she is the litigious type. Either way the choice to bring a claim or not is her decision, not mine and I guess that is up to her.

Are you able to find her another job?

No, I have been through all the other sites in the area and she does not want to relocate to them as she does not have a car and it would entail catching buses. Also she has 2 other jobs for other cleaning firms and the hours would clash with her other 2 posts.

well did not go to the meeting and got a weird email stating that unless I go to the meeting they are going to assume I no longer want the contract??? Assume away. Not responding anymore, sick of the email ping pong match.

Did you tell them you needed an agenda before the meeting, and if so what was their response?

I must say it sounds like you are better off without this headache. This man is never going to find a cleaner prepared to do what he wants for what he is prepared to pay.

I told them I would only attend with legal representation and I wanted an agenda. I got a response in caps lock NO AGENDA WILL BE PROVIDED. I have been told to respond to the email or they are going to assume I no longer want the contract, well they can assume what they want. Just given up replying. I have MH issues although I have been stable recently, but this has still caused anxiety and sleepless nights.

and I asked again what the defects in the cleaning were and they are still refusing to tell me as there are allegedly too many to put in an email.

This is all too common in the cleaning industry, unfortunately there are people who treat cleaners like consumable items to be disposed of at will!

It is now a very cut throat industry and as a contractor the only thing they have to provide you with is your notice period, they do not have to give a reason. However your employee does have a right to be transferred and can take up the case herself, just make sure you have given her notice that you are losing the contract and you believe TUPE applies also acknowledge his email very firmly requesting details of the new supplier so you can carry out you obligations under TUPE, also reinstate that even if they are taking the service in house TUPE still applies and you will forward details. I would also put any additional employment offers you have made in writing and keep copies of all emails to your client detailing your requests for the transfer.

It is highly unlikely your employee will take it further. I would say you will be better off without this contract, it is impossible to provide 30 hours of work in just 12 whatever line of work you are in

I doubt she will take it further, she strikes me as a kind, gentle lady and definitively not the litigious type. However she has the right to and now she will be faced with the choice to pursue it or not. It is just a shame I cannot relocate her. If all my staff were as conscientious and polite as her I would have an easy life.

I'm struggling to see how TUPE applies vis a vis the customer and the cleaner. Isn't she your employee not his?

Yes my employee and the rules state when the new contractor comes in her job goes to that firm.
The customer thinks she is useless and wants rid and I have refused to sack her. I would sack her if she was useless but she is doing a really good job. I deal with cleaners not showing up, sending their OH in when they cannot be bothered, pretending to clean toilets for 50 minutes while sat on the loo messing on their Facebook on the phone. I even had one cleaner once who was stealing my cleaning chemicals and selling them on. She is polite, turns up on time, often leaves late and works solid. I cannot see what the problem is.

Great. Just got back from the GPs after suffering the first ever migraine in my life. Started yesterday morning. I thought it was a mini-stroke as I could not move one hand and had headache from hell. Just looked on-line and apparently migraines can be caused my stress. Would not be surprised if this customer has brought it on.

It has made me very ill. I started with a headache 2 days ago but it was unlike any headache I had ever had before and I could not think, stand lights, noise and kept wanting to vomit. When I woke up with the headache again the next day I went to GPs and they explained this was a migraine. I have never had a migraine before. Today is the first day without the actual headache but I feel totally washed out. I went to college to do my accountancy course today and could not even do basic mental arithmetic and normally I am really fast with sums. Phoned the NHS direct and they said this is normal after a migraine and could last a week. First invoice due tomorrow and is not showing on my next days transactions on the internet banking, so I think they may withhold payment but if they do I will take it to court.

Thanks to these sumatriptan pills from the doctor I am now sort of better. They have not paid their first invoice and I suspect they are just going to withhold pay in the hope I come and get my kit and quit. Peninsula have advised against me quitting as then I could get done for unfair dismissal of the cleaner, so I have to stick the contract out, with no pay, until it ends.