To think yes actually it IS time to legislate to stop teenage drivers driving a car full of their mates around at night?

[northernlurker]

Very distressing story on BBC here. If you don't want to click - it's 5 teens killed last night in the same car. Two girls, three boys. I have a child the same age as some of them and it's just so sad. I've always thought that you couldn't legislate for this but something has to be done. There was a triple fatal crash on the same bit of road also involving teens a few years ago and it happens again and again. The first funeral I ever went to was a girl in the year above me at school. There were 4 in that car. Two killed, one badly injured and one slightly hurt.
If teenage drivers were limited to no more than two passengers under the age of 21 would it help?

YABU, and I think doing a gross injustice to the driver of the car by assuming that it was their fault. Media are reporting that the driver of the other car involved was arrested for dangerous driving. The driver who was killed may well be entirely blameless.

A better option than restricting passenger numbers, or raising the driving limit, would be to strengthen the pass requirements and ensure that all new drivers, regardless of age, are put through a similar course as the one given to repeat speeding offenders... where they are shown the consequences of dangerous driving. I know a couple of people who have been on these courses, and it completely changed their attitude to driving (for the better).

I think the issue is with inexperienced new drivers, who yes are likely to be younger. But if you raise the age limit all you'll achieve is a shift in the demographics of new drivers and their passengers being killed/injured.

If you raise the age to 21 how the hell are these young people meant to get work? I know it's possible in some areas but if you live in the countryside with poor public transport you are stuck, you need to be able to drive to get to work, to get to shops and to get to the doctors if need be. I do think there should be some restrictions for young drivers though, a maximum engine size and maybe a restriction on passengers in the car. My hart goes out to the families of the youngsters who sadly lost their lives.

I really hope family members/friends of the driver carrying passengers don't come across this. I've been where they are, and having your loved one judged when you have literally just been told they've died is beyond anything I can put into words. The driver of ANOTHER car involved in this terrible tragedy has been arrested, so it would seem likely that the driver carrying passengers did nothing wrong.

I think 16/17 is far too young for a lot of things. Yes some are sensible but many are not. I'd like to see 18 for age of consent, 21 for drinking and 25 before driving and then restrictions on times, passengers for the year after passing whilst experience is gained.

YANBU
Just awful.

Daisy, those suggestions are beyond ridiculous. Particularly 25 to drive. Completely completely stupid.

In that situation you would be telling a TWENTY SIX year old when they are permitted to drive and give them restrictions? Are you even listening to yourself. I'm leaving this thread, I hate older people who think anyone younger than them is incompetent and stupid. Idiotic.

I think 25 is way too high Daisy

The trouble is, many people need to drive to get to and from work...especially in remote areas.

Plus, there are plenty of parents aged under 25 who need their cars to get their kids to and from school/child minders etc.

I do not agree that the age should be raised - inexperience is inexperience regardless of age.

But restrictions to passenger numbers could work. No more than say for under 19s ?

I think that there should be some restrictions yes. My youngest is 21 and I would have welcomed it when she and the boys were learning to drive.

It does look like the young driver in the case Northern posted about isn't to blame but there are many where that isn't so. For me it's not just about distraction; a fully laden car handles completely differently to one with just a driver and one passenger. One of my friends was the driver in a car where one of her multiple passengers died after she lost control (no other vehicle involved). She's never got over it.

25 for driving ? How stupid ! Plenty of people are married with children of their own by then !

If you can enlist in the army you are enough of an adult to drive a bloody car IMO.

Here's an interesting one. A student of mine was guardian to his brother and sister. He was 19, they were younger teenagers. Both parents had died in awful circumstances and he had had to step up to the plate and take charge. He was doing a fine job and working full time too as well as retaking the exams that he missed due to his parents death. He really needed to drive to be able to fit in all his commitments and to ban him carrying passengers would have made a bad situation worse. I realise this is an exceptional position to be in but a blanket heavy handed rule would be wrong. And what about older new drivers (I hope to be one soon!) It would be age discrimination to choose who rules apply to but pointless passing my test if I could not transport my soon to be 16 year old DS1. I'm doing it to remove dependency on DH to drive the kids around.

Where I live drivers under 18 are restricted for the first twelve months. They may not carry any passengers under 20 without an adult present (with a few notable exceptions -- e.g. DS#1 could drive DS#2 to his sport practise with a dated letter from me saying I needed him to do it.) They are also restricted driving without an adult between 11pm and 5am unless it is for a school event (needs letter from head) or for working (letter from employer). I think it is a good rule. The car we let DS drive was a two seater because I had seen teens drive with a car full with everyone yelling, leaning out of the windows and very loud music and I can't imagine that the driver has all their wits about them with that going on and didn't want DS to have to deal with that as a new driver.

OT but reading the tributes that the school gave, hate that they talk about the girls beauty. Yes the girls may have been very beautiful but a shame that that is what they chose to talk about.

As for increasing the difficulty of the driving test, it's one of the most difficult in the world as it is. It is solid.

DrCoconut, the example you give about the guardian wouldn't count here because they are over 18. Besides that exemptions allow for certain situations e.g. emancipation

The test is already hard. You can fail from other people's mistakes on the road ffs.

I'd welcome a restriction. I was a "sensible driver" never had an accident and no points until I was caught speeding after 20 years behind the wheel but I look back on that first year on the road and I was woefully inexperienced.

I passed my test at 17 and recall vividly driving like a complete arse when all of my friends were piled in the car and the stereo was baring and we were up for a night out.

I honestly don't know how you deal with it. I think a restriction on the number of young people in a car would be incredibly hard to police. We have nightmares round here (very rural) with pissed up boy racers - but never see plod from one year to the next.

This is an appalling story and my heart goes out to all families involved - and the poor bloody emergency services who had to deal with the aftermath. 5 young fatalities is unspeakable.

There are other restrictions too. Older drivers may use a handsfree device but restricted drivers can't. Restricted drivers can be ticketed with a much lower alcohol limit (basically anything at all) whereas non-restricted drivers can have a small amount.

I think what could be better is compulsery re testing of ALL drivers every 7 years or so.

I think that would bring down the number accidents by a huge amount and making more drivers aware of everything instead of getting too cocky. It's will also remind everyone of the laws of the road, keep them on top of the highway code and stopping distances and learn to be more patient on the roads in general.

If the Police have to have regular driving training, why can't everyone else? Cars are getting bigger, more powerful, there's more of them on the roads, traffic is getting worse, tempers are getting worse...

YABU

This was a tragedy that may well have been caused by a third car.

The vast majority of teens can and do drive sensibly.

I think there should be a limit on the power of vehicle that anyone can drive for the first two years after passing their test. That would limit the power and speed on any car driven by a new driver.
There are similar rules for motorbikes and when they were brought in it reduced the deaths on motorbikes.

How would that work on motorways pailine?

I agree that the test is difficult in some places. But actually that is quite variable. In the city where mine took their test they have to go on a stretch of v busy dual carriageway and are expected to drive at the appropriate speed; at the test centre in the next town they pootle around at 30 for the whole time. And no test gives them the experience of driving with a full car, at night, at speed. Like many instances in life you are taught to pass the test not to actually drive in the real world. That only comes with time.