To know not if my Mum IBU about my Grandad at Christmas

[unfairrornot]

She has asked me for advice and I am unsure.

Background. My Nana died in 1995 and my Grandad has spent Christmas at my parents every year since then. My DP and I go to my parents or his for Christmas. My Grandad cannot come here because he cannot manage the stairs in my house and we don't have a downstairs toilet for him to use so we do not host Christmas, although if he could, we would.

We all live a couple of hours away from each other so having him just for the day is not practical.

My Grandad is very difficult and rude. He has always been a rude man. He can be quite toxic, always has something negative to say, never says thank you or please. Regularly tells me how fat and useless I am. He is also 93 and so this could be his last Christmas (although he is in good health.)

My Mum wants to ask her brother to have him for Christmas. My Grandad has an ok relationship with him, my uncle has checked out emotionally due to my Grandad's rudeness although he does his duty on birthdays etc. It would not occur to him to have him for Christmas so my Mum will have to ask. He lives nearby so can have him just for the day.

Part of me thinks my Mum INBU because he is so difficult and he casts a real downer on Christmas. But part of me thinks that he is so old and he does love us very much, even if he doesn't show it very well, he is very lonely and I think going to my parents for Christmas is the highlight of his year.

My Mum has asked me what I think and I am unsure. I have offered to have us all for Christmas but like I say above it is not practical for him to come here.

He's 93. If it was me I'd do everything I could to make it easier for Mum to have him. She's had him every other Christmas, if this is his last she'll probably end up feeling awful that she didn't have him there.

You could buy him some ear defender headphones for Christmas :)

Bottom line is, your mum wants a break (would she them come to you?) so that's what should happen.
Could be put forward as "dd is hosting Xmas this year dad and I really don't want to let her down, your son would love to have you come since I know dd's isn't practical"

How do you think this will play out OP? Will your uncle agree to having his father over if your Mum asks and will your Grandfather agree to go to your uncle's if he's asked? If either your Grandfather or uncle refuses do you think your mum will then have your Grandfather over?

Your Mum could ask your uncle but he may say No.
Is uncle married-would his wife agree?
Would Grandad want to go to Uncle's house or would he be unhappy about it?
I have been in similar position to OP's Mum and I think I would just do it but plan something relaxing for myself afterwards.

I don't know if my Uncle will agree, I think he probably would, he is married with children (and Grandchildren) of his own so not sure what his plans might be. One of my cousins no longer speaks to my Grandad so if he is hosting it will be a no go anyway. But yes I do feel my Uncle should do his part.

I have offered to host if he does go to my Uncles :)

That's kind of you to offer to host, it sounds like you're trying to be very sensitive to everyone's feelings unfairornot, Christmas raises difficulties for lots of families, you're not alone in these kinds of dilemmas.

Well perhaps your Mum should discuss it with her brother but if he's not happy with it I would advise her not to push it-it will just end with everyone upset and possibly not speaking. IMO not worth it at this stage.
I have to say though that although I always have hosted Christmas my brother was a saint to our elderly parent throughout the year and we worked together quite well.
Parent had poor relationship with SIL (historical).

Your mum has bravely sucked up courage to ask you what she should do. She may have internally agonised for weeks.

And you said "I don't know". "I'll ask mn!" Gee op. That's cold. Really cold.

Support her! Ask the brother. Give your mum a blooming break!

It's not U for your mum to ask her brother if he would have his father for at least Christmas day, but if I were her, I would ask DB before I said anything to Dad. That way if DB says "no" father won't be upset and if the answer is "yes" it can be presented as a fait acompli as in "Dad, DS is picking you up at x o'clock, isn't that nice?" rather than giving him a choice. Then just ignoring any grumbling. We did this with MiL - she had similar mobility and toilet issues as your Grandad from the sound of it - and while she enjoyed a good grumble [ DiL never does dinner on time/I don't like her trifle/they always undercook the veg] she also enjoyed it when she got there.

If the answer is no, can you help by taking some of the load from your Mum? Do the baking/take the starter/stuffing/pudding/peel all the veg etc so she is less stressed. You could offer to "host" but at her house iyswim.
Could there be a second tv/headphones for granddad?
Personally, a good tip for your mum voice of experience is a large insert alcohol of choice and to put her deaf ears on to any elderly moaning and finally, to leave all the washing up to everyone else!

Could you speak to your uncle OP? I'm guessing his first thought will be to say "no" but if it's phrased in terms of "I know mum wouldn't like to say anything, but she's really struggling with Christmas and is like to invite her to mine for a break - thing is she won't come if GP is left alone. Could you have him?"

Or book everyone into a hotel somewhere for the meal.

Give your mum a break. If it is his last Christmas he's had loads of other Christmases with your Mum, and had plenty of opportunity to make himself a welcome and pleasant guest. Instead it sounds like he's ruined every one with his selfishness and rudeness. Being 93 doesn't give him the right to behave so badly. Has anyone actually pulled him up on his behaviour? He's an adult, treat him like one.

Your Granddad doesn't sound 'quite toxic' or 'stuck in his ways' or even 'very awkward'. He sounds full on toxic.

There is already one cousin that wants nothing to do with him.
He sits about spoiling everyone's Christmas and has done for decades.
Your partner misses out on Christmas with his parents because your Granddad prevents this ever happening.
Insisting on being taken to a supermarket to use the toilet is beyond awkward and into bizarre.

While to you he may be 'awkward Granddad who can be a bit horrid', your mum and uncle have had him as their actual parent. And if he's been like this his whole life, he sounds a pretty rubbish parent. I'd like to cut your uncle some slack here and say far from 'not doing enough to help', he's probably trying to have as little contact with his toxic parent as he possibly can.

And yet nothing can be done to upset him from now until the end of his life because someone might regret it when he dies?

Sounds like Uncle has gone minimal contact with his dad, purposefully or through letting a convenient circumstance continue. By all means, your Mum should discuss the situation with him, but dont be surprised if Uncle refuses (on his own behalf, or his wife's, or the non-contact cousin's.)

I agree, the 'last Christmas' argument could go on for years longer. You would hate to cut back on contact and then have it be the actual last visit. But if you cut back, and he carries on, then you all move forward with the new system.

I assume someone has to pick him up and take him back. Can that be converted into a visit at his? You could explain that hosting is just getting to be a bit much for your mum so your uncle and a few from his family can go over and fill the morning, and your mom and dad the afternoon? You and yours can sign on for Christmas eve, maybbe some cousins on Boxing day? Make sure he sees a bit of everyone over the holiday, but he isnt being dragged from his home and habits. (Maybe even formally create a schedule of visits for after the holidays...)

Not being funny OP, but you don't know the first thing about your DM childhood, only what she has told you, which will have been the edited version.

Her DF is a rude and nasty old piece of work, by the sounds of it, him shuffling off will be doing the world a favour. Your DM has asked if her DB can do his turn, which given the Fear Obligation and Guilt people like your GF command, will have been a big thing for her.

And you are potentially guilt tripping her into taking him on AGAIN.

If he dies next year, he dies having spent christmas with his son. What difference is that to if your DM was the one to have him?

Don't make your mother feel guilty for a decision that is long in the making and should have been taken years ago. Perhaps if he hadn't have been allowed to get away with it in the past, he'd have learnt to have treated his kids better.

Support your DM, not some sugar coated illusion of happy families you wish existed.

I think that's a bit unfair Boomtown-OP sounds very supportive of her Mum.

How well do you know your uncle OP?-it may help for you to approach him as Iggi suggests but in some families it would come better from OP's Mum-it depends on the relationships. OP is in the best position to judge this.
I agree with giving your Mum as much practical support as possible and having a laugh with her-but you don't sound as if you have any intention of going there to be waited on or make demands anyway.
Extra help and a laugh with you about grandad will help her through if he goes to her in the end.

Momagain-that would work if everyone lived close by each other but there are hours of driving involved for everyone.

I agree with everything said above about him being a pain in the arse and that age is no real excuse if this behavior is fairly typical of him for years.

I agree that ultimately the uncle has the right to not have his father at xmas, if relationships are that strained.

It's probably true that the OP has only had a cut and paste version of the past.

It's so hard though. Because it'll be impossible now for OPs mum to just wash her hands of any responsibility of her father at xmas.

:(

How old is your mum?

What if it's her last Christmas?

She isn't going to be around forever either, and it would be nice for her to have have some nice Christmases while she's still young enough to enjoy them.

I don't at all see why the fact that her brother hasn't done his share until now means he gets a free pass forever.

Women are (especially of her generation) to make themselves miserable keeping everyone else happy.

She's asking for your support in putting herself first. I think you should support her.

God i'm going to tell my kids that if turn into a miserable old cow who is just a burden then they can shoot me just tell me so and leave me on my own for xmas!

I think it's perfectly reasonable for your mum to ask her brother to have their dad this year so she can come to yours. It would also be completely reasonable for your uncle to say no if he's gone minimal contact for good reasons. (which is what it sounds like)

Yes it could be his last Christmas, so how lovely for your Mum's brother that after years of spending Christmas apart, he'll have the memory of his Dad's last Christmas together. Both your mum and your Uncle are equally your Dad's DCs. One of them won't have their Dad's last Christmas if they don't spend it together, whenever the last Christmas is.

He sounds like an unpleasant old man, who was almost certainly an unpleasant young man. His age isn't an excuse for being an arsehole. Tell your mother that she can absolutely ask her brother, but tbh I'd understand if he refused. So then maybe you could suggest that your mother finds a solution that allows her to enjoy her Christmas without having to endure her father.

What do you say to him when he calls you fat and useless?

What does your dh say or your mum?

In my experience people are what they are from am early age do a rude nasty 27 year old is a rude nasty 90 year old.

I imagine your uncle will refuse if he had cut himself off from his dad Nd don't blame him.

Support your mum.

I am sorry if I have not made it clear. I have told my Mum I am supportive of her choices. I am not sure personally because I don't want her to regret anything but over the phone I told her that I thought it was a good idea and whatever she thought was best. She will speak to my Uncle first.

Unfortunately we can't nip up to see him on Christmas Eve it is a long journey. My parents plan to see him after Christmas.

I know a lot about my Mum's childhood but I don't want to go into details. My Grandad is complex and I can see how he has made my mother's life difficult but I can also see ways he was a good father, as can she. Equally when I was younger (and more naive!) he was a good Grandad to me who was very kind to me. My Nana was a lovely kind woman who helped to keep him in track, her death has had such a huge impact on our family. There have been times that my Uncles family have been very unsupportive - making my Mum's life difficult and for that I am annoyed with them. I am annoyed that she has to ask for him to go to theirs instead of them offering.

I will be sad when he dies and the world will not be better off, for all he is a challenge and he can be upsetting he wants the best for me and I will miss him. I ring him every week and visit when I can.

Oh and we do call him on it. My Dad has had quite a few stern words and taken action before now, the problem is he will argue back and that upsets my Mum so I keep quiet because I don't want to spoil her Christmas. When he calls me fat I point out his rudeness, his own weight and remind him that I am here to see him and not be called names. It shuts him up.

Another thought, if he does make Christmas hideous for everyone, then this year your mum might really enjoy Christmas for the first time in years. If it is his last, then at least next year she wouldn't have the guilt of that being her first fun Christmas because he's gone, because the "dad spoiling Christmas" thing will have been ended this year.

Could you go between Christmas and new year to see him, maybe stay overnight in a hotel nearby if it's too far to do a day trip and take him out for lunch. Most places are quiet that week. Then you've seen him over the festive period, your mum has had a nice Christmas Day and your uncle has done his bit.