to hate smokers

[onemiddlefinger]

I don't actually hate the people (well, not all of them anyway), but I find it so disgusting walking though someone's cloud of smoke. There was just a woman having a cigarette next to the door of my office building and there is no way for me to enter the building other than though hercloud of death! And that happens frequently. Would IBU to bring this up with our office manager and ask for this to be banned?
Actually I wish all smoking in public could be banned, or at least in all bus stops and doorways that have people coming in and out of. In fact they should have designated areas only and those areas should be easily avoidable by others. But I don't suppose this will happen anytime soon...

[Serenitysutton]

I too don't understand the hysterical drama queens on MN. Smoke really doesn't smell the horrendous and it's gone on seconds. How strange to be so unable to cope with little inconveniences in life.

[BackOnlyBriefly]

It gave the game away when the anti-smokers turned on the vapers. It couldn't possibly be harming them now, but still they hate the thought of people enjoying it.

btw 'hating' reduces life expectancy, leads to mental and physical problems and can have a similar knock-on effect on those around you.

But if you are addicted to hating I understand that it's hard to give up.

[HelloItsMeFell]

you are wrong Serenity. Just wrong, plain and simple.

And I don't give a stuff about vaping. I don't think anyone has 'turned on' vapers have they? It doesn't harm me or inconvenience me or revolt me in any way so I really have no opinion on what others do with regard to vaping.

[LST]

hmm I thought 20% was quite low actually. I'd say I knew about 50/50!

[HmmAnOxfordComma]

Really? 50%? I have one relative and one acquaintance's Dh. No-one I work with, no-one else I know.

I wish smokers could still smoke indoors, in special rooms, because I do find it really hard to walk past someone smoking on the street without coughing and then you look like a judgey twat even when you can't help the choking/coughing. And it has spoilt sitting outside in cafés and restaurants for me.

[Serenitysutton]

I'm not wrong, you're probably just a drama queen :)

[BackOnlyBriefly]

It's absolutely certain that smoking is bad for the smoker. You can test that by giving up for a month and walking up a flight of stairs.

However the huge numbers that you read in headlines supposedly dying of smoking are partly based on a misunderstanding.

You might read one article that says '50,000 people died of smoking' and the next day '50,000 died through alcohol abuse' and then 50,000 died because of obesity'

But they are the same 50,000 or a huge overlap. Someone who dies overweight, alcoholic and a smoker ticks all those boxes. In fact they will tick those boxes even if they died because a piano fell on their head. It's a statistical thing where each lifestyle choice reduces life expectancy.

It's not a lie. I'm sure the medical experts understand the figures. It's the tabloids that don't.

Oh and someone said earlier about the cost to the NHS. The NHS estimated that the extra costs of smoking related diseases was a small fraction of the amount gained through tobacco taxes.

There are good reasons to stop or not to start without making any up.

[HelloItsMeFell]

Do you smoke Serenity?

There's no drama involved, I am quite simply revolted by the smell of it and I detest having to sit in the line of a plume of cigarette smoke or to have to walk past it /through it in the street. It makes my eyes water, by throat sting, it makes me cough and splutter it smells hideous and makes me nauseous.

Who are you to tell me that I don't experience that and I'm just all about making a drama out of nothing?

[HelloItsMeFell]

And I came home from a party on Thursday night (black tie event) where people were not smoking in the ballroom itself but in an adjacent bar. Even though I spent very little time in there the smoke carried and I came home absolutely reeking of it, in my nicely blow dried hair which had to be washed immediately when it would otherwise have done me for another day or two, and on my brand new dress which had to go straight in the dry cleaners because it stank so much.

But hey, I'm obviously just hysterical.

[BackOnlyBriefly]

I don't think anyone has 'turned on' vapers have they

There was a thread not long ago. Something like 'if we can ban smokers indoors why can't we ban vapers'

[HelloItsMeFell]

But I don't think most people feel that way Back. i am not bothered by vaping because it doesn't stink up the place or make my eyes sting or inconvenience me in any way, and so long as there is no evidence that my health is being compromised by it then if they want to be live their life being addicted to and ruled by nicotine I don't give a shit! I imagine most anti-smokers feel that way.

[naty1]

I dont believe nhs figures. Because how do they define an illness caused by smoking.
They dont charge for treatment so how can they estimate cost.
Things like a small prem baby are unlikely to be recorded as that.
So things like undescended testicles in boys are the mums asked if they smoked and it recorded as cause.??
When it affects so many things plus bystanders how can they measure it with certainty.
Also the smoker who said about obesity well doesnt smoking suppress appetite? And affect thyroid so when you do quit you may see the struggle to stay thin.
If it can affect fertility what is it doing to the health of smokers kids even if parents quit?

[Puzzledandpissedoff]

It gave the game away when the anti-smokers turned on the vapers. It couldn't possibly be harming them now, but still they hate the thought of people enjoying it

Oh, how very true

To quote H. L. Mencken: "Puritanism: the haunting fear that someone, somewhere may be happy"

[Jolleigh]

I vape and smoke (in the process of ditching the fags) and I've lost count of the number of people who've very pointedly coughed towards me and muttered things about my vaping near them.

It does highlight that for many non-smokers, it's not the smell or the health implications that are the issue.

[fanjoforthemammaries7850]

I don't tend to go around hating people for their personal habits.

I don't like smell of smoke being blown om me but YABU to actually hate people for smoking.

[BackOnlyBriefly]

naty1 Not sure which side you are arguing for there. After all the anti-smokers do claim they know how much it costs.

[Serenitysutton]

I don't smoke.

"I detest having to sit in the line of a plume of cigarette smoke or to have to walk past it /through it in the street. It makes my eyes water, by throat sting, it makes me cough and splutter it smells hideous and makes me nauseous."

You WALK PAST a smoker and all this happens? And you're not being dramatic?

[naty1]

Yes i saw it was ASH. But i doubt they are at gp consultation/all hospitals. It i assume comes from nhs which isnt the most accurate organisation.
So any cost of smoking is seriously understated. (To nhs)
With improved healthcare we can keep smokers alive longer despite serious conditions

[PlentyOfPubeGardens]

HelloItsMeFell - I don't think anyone has 'turned on' vapers have they?

Well, let's see ... I've been vaping just over a year and in that time we've seen:

• The EU imposing unscientific draconian regulations which will hand the entire industry to the tobacco companies and send millions of vapers across Europe back to the fags. These regulations were formulated behind the closed doors of the trilogue process and were never democratically debated in the EU parliament.
  

• The WHO again using bad science to come up with guidelines which would place vaping in with tobacco regulations worldwide. These recommendations were formulated behind closed doors at FTCT COP6, a lavishly catered conference in Russia (incidentally boycotted by the US because of Putin's recent actions). On day 1 of the conference all members of the public were ejected. On day 2 all members of the press were thrown out as well. Recommendations include banning in public places, banning advertising and banning ecigs altogether.
  

• The FDA's proposed new 'deeming' regulations in the US that would regulate ecigs as 'tobacco products' even though they are not. These new regulations threaten to remove from the market any device or liquid that was not on sale prior to 2007 (i.e. any device or liquid). So far they do seem to be consulting properly on this but it's early days.
  

• The near collapse of the ecig industry in Spain following scare stories in the press and widespread public bans. 80% of spanish vapers are now back on the fags.
  

• The MHRA refusing to allow ecigs without a medicinal licence to be sold as an aid to stopping smoking or with any claims that they are safer than smoking.
  

• A proposed ban on vaping in public places in Wales. This is still being debated
  

• The BMA are also calling for a ban in public places
  

Added to the above, there are the numerous examples of shocking language and behaviour from individual public health professionals:

• Dame Sally Davies, Chief Medical Officer and Special Scientific Advisor to the government, stating to a shocked audience at a Public Health England conference that vapers and smokers should 'just grow a backbone and quit'
  

• Martin McKee, president of the European Public Health Association, who is obsessed with flavourings and cannot believe that adults like sweet flavours. He routinely spreads alarmist pseudoscience about vaping on social media, collects disgruntled replies from vapers, labels said vapers as trolls at public health conferences and in journals which are behind paywalls and then blocks the individuals on social media so that they have no means to respond.
  

• John Ashton, president of the Faculty of Public Health, who trawled through twitter timelines and dug up months-old tweets by vapers so he could respond and call them 'onanists' and 'cunts'. John Ashton is currently on a little holiday thanks to his efforts, however the FPH have decided that he is fit to continue as president and look forward to his return.
  

There are more but these will do for now.

Then closer to home there have been a lot of vile posts about vapers and ecigs on MN. Was anybody here for the 'vaping in legoland' thread? (was in chat so no longer there) That one got deeply nasty.

So yes, vapers do feel a bit like people are 'turning on them' - with good reason.

[PlentyOfPubeGardens]

I don't really understand your posts naty1. Can you explain a bit more why you think ASH's figures are wrong? They are after all dedicated to ending smoking so I doubt they'd underestimate their figures.

[BackOnlyBriefly]

naty1 I don't know about ash. I was replying to anti-smoker further back who said it costs the NHS so much money. I pointed out the NHS said they had worked it out and that it didn't.

Now you say the NHS can't possibly know how much, but you know it's higher.

Really? :)

[naty1]

Yes really.
So say x % people have asthma. X have pcos, hypothyroidism, infertility, hayfever. How do you differentiate cause of these conditions. Is it even recorded from 35-40 yrs ago which mums smoked in pg? And then recorded on the childs notes. It could be bad luck.
Plus increased risk of cot death- would that say smoking related or just cot death.
Logically it would include things like breathing problems for the smoker, some cancers, and maybe heart attack/stroke.
But nhs dont really investigate cause they treat the end condition.
Now i have a DD i will see how much these conditions are inherited and how much related to the smoking.
Unless they are assuming x% of kids asthma is caused my smoking

[naty1]

Typo - by smoking

[Serenitysutton]

But naty they wouldn't know whether most the conditions you mention were caused by smoking- so how can you say they were? Or even that they might be?

[FiftyShadesofScreeeeeeeam]

For fuck's sake just get on with your bloody lives and stop whining.

It's fag smoke, they're not sneezing Ebola at you.