Do we need to be cruel to be kind with my elderly grandfather

[CountryMummy1]

My mum is my grandad's carer. He is in his 80's and had his leg amputated at the beginning of the year due to cancer. Obviously it was a very traumatic time for everyone as we honestly thought we would lose him. However, he pulled through and has made a great recovery. He now has a prosthetic leg and can drive, walk, go shopping, basically everything he could do before. We are very proud of him.

However..... he has always been a bit precious about himself and a complete fusspot. After his operation he led my nan a merry dance. She had to make him a homemade roast dinner every single night as that's all he will eat, fetch and carry for him as he cannot wait for anything, and generally fuss with him as he can't bear to be in the slightest discomfort for even a minute. He doesn't know the meaning of the sentence 'putting up with it'. He has always been like this, although worse over the last few years and very much worse since his operation.

My nan became absolutely exhausted, despite us all helping her everyday and she developed jaundice. She was very poorly and hospitalised before finally being told that she had very advanced pancreatic cancer. She died of a catastrophic stroke in June this year.

My granddad is now on his own. He lived with my parents for a few months after nan died and he is always welcome to go back there anytime. My mom, myself and my sister only live 10 minutes away from him so we see him every day - we either go to him or he spends the day with us.

However, it is now my mom who is exhausted. She had a meltdown yesterday and ended up screaming in the kitchen, I am so worried about her. My granddad now treats my mum like he did my nan. He relies on her for everything even though he is perfectly capable of cooking his own dinner or getting his own shopping. He also makes life so hard for all of us with his constant fussing. If I ever tell anyone about what he does, they can't believe it.

For example, he has one of us going round his house almost every day to change his central heating settings as he can't do it himself. He keeps changing his mind over what time he wants the heat to come on/off. He phoned me a midnight last night and had me go over as he had fiddled with the settings (yet again!) and couldn't turn it off. I was fast asleep as I have a 2 year old and an 8 month old.

Another example is that we have spent 8 months arranging for him to have a new disabled bathroom fitted through social services. As I'm sure you know, it's a difficult, long winded process. The builders were coming yesterday to start it. He sent them away when they arrived at 8.50am as he had a bit of a cold and didn't feel up to it, even though mom was getting there at 9am to supervise them. We now have to spend hours on the phone sorting it out again. He also constantly cancels doctor's appointments we have made if he can't be bothered to go.

He has suddenly turned into a very selfish man, not the wonderful caring granddad I have loved all my life. He never asks how the children are. It was my birthday on Sunday, mom got me a card and present from him, he never even wished me happy returns. He doesn't seem to care that he is making life so hard for us all. I am dreading Christmas as I know he's going to ruin it for my 2 year old who is really looking forward to it. Last year we didn't have a Christmas as Grandad was diagnosed on Christmas Eve and I just feel so guilty that my daughter is missing out.

My sister wants to give him a telling off and explain how difficult he is making life for my mom. She also thinks we should stop 'babying' him so much and make him do things for himself. I am reluctant to as I feel so sorry for him. I'm sure he's depressed but he'd never admit to it or see anyone about it. He doesn't socialise anymore and only sees us.

Any advice? We so need it!!

I disagree that he can't be told off because he's old and bereaved. It doesn't mean you get to treat people like shit.

My grandmother was widowed last year and at first she was adamant that she wasn't going to have a carer. We put our foot down and said tough, you're having one, because the alternative was my aunt (who does most of the looking after and arranging things) being worn to a frazzle and torn between either going over there every day or worrying about it. Granny soon saw the point, and now is perfectly alright with a carer who comes first thing in the morning and does a few house chores, change sheets etc.

Like Midnite says, if he is capable of things then he should do them himself. It's doing no one any favours to pander to his awful behaviour. Unless it's something dangerous or health-threatening (or very unpleasant) he can wait for someone to come round and fix something at a convenient time, not just when he feels like it.

You already know that you need to be cruel to be kind.

I care for an elderly lady with dementia. Her children are so so supportive but live far away. My lady's behaviour is not dissimilar to how you describe your granddad. She used to call at all times of night but a gently post it note by the 'phone, on the thermostat, etcetera etc has really helped her.

First and foremost you must STOP doing things at stupid times of day and night.
He won't learn.

Write down for him what is going to be done and when and stick to it. Don't offer any additional services unless in an absolute emergency. Changing the heating is not an emergency. Being unwell is.

Go and see the doctor. Talk with them about granddad and give doctor all of the information before meeting grandad. The tell grandad he has a doctor's appt and take him. if he asks, say it's a flu shot and you/mum will go with him to take him shopping after.

Cruel to be kind.

And take him off the road. TAKE HIM OFF THE ROAD. If you have doubt then "loose his keys" take the car in for a service. Anything but don't let's dangerous person behind the wheel until proven otherwise. If he hurts someone then how will you feel?

Cruel to be kind.

He sounds terribly selfish - yes, probably a sign of dementia, my mum had it and she got like that.

But you are all enabling him!

How on earth can you cope with all this with a 2 year old and an 8 month old?! You must be superwoman!

I was a sandwich - taking care of aging parents and a child, single mum and all, dad long gone over the horizon.

You are in serious danger of getting burnt out let me tell you about it. You and your children are your first priority.
And if you get burnt out where does that leave your children?....
You owe it to them to give them the best childhood they can have.

Please do everything possible to outsource as much care as possible.
Your mum deserves it too.

Yes, and stop pandering to him. If he gets irate, so what? Who made him king of the castle anyway...? Oh and definitely get him off the road!!

ughhh btdt still have the burn out issues. Yikes

(((((((((((((((Hugs)))))))))))))))))

will come back in a bit and explain

I also think early signs of Dementia, layered on top of well-embedded Entitled-Old-Git syndrome. Lots of signs here similar to my Nan before she was diagnosed. Esp the cancelling appointments one. It's very hard. You are a good person to care.

Haven't read all the posts but the same thing happened to my once lovely grandad after a leg amputation (due to diabetes), depression (which he'd had all his life) and dementia. He ran my nan ragged and was quite nasty to her at times. Then one time, he snapped at me (the apple of his eye) for referring to his 'stump' (the terminology he used himself) and was really rude to me. I reacted angrily for the first time ever, and gave him a long list of home truths which just all came pouring out. He ended up crying and apologising to us all. I reacted instinctively, but coming from me as his beloved granddaughter it seemed to have more impact than from others. We all then worked to support my nan and put a few boundaries in place. He still wouldn't allow anyone other than nan to do personal care etc, so we focused on things to support her instead.

Can you arrange for your mum to go away / take a break? Like someone else suggested, a rota system for nighttime calls is better than you all being constantly disturbed. Don't jump or go running for minor quibbles like central hearing, say that these can be dealt with in the morning. Reiterate it is nighttime and you and the children are sleeping. Good luck and please don't feel guilty about standing up to him, this is about protecting everyone in the family.

Been there (twice!) with the driving... And the phrase "you're taking away my independence was used too!

You are not. He is probably not fit to drive. Has he been assessed medically? With DM the doctors told her in hospital that she could not drive and that was that. Car was sold although it was sad for her.

Your GF does sound as it he's been used to people running around after him, what with all that nonsense about roast dinners and that he's finding it hard to adjust to everything. But you cannot go on like this and gave to start saying no and letting him see what happens when he turns workmen away

He needs external interests a club, society as well IMO ... Some great tips on here so not going to repeat them,

CountryMummy1 - I sooooo know how you feel - I have the same issues with my grandfather who's 89!!

It's hard to know what to do for the best - I would just like to wish you well and let you know that you are not the only family going through this - you have my support if you need an ear to bend - just PM me.

Thanks everyone for the support and the advice. I really appreciate it.

My mom, dad and sister are off on a long awaited holiday at the end of this month to America for 2 weeks and I am absolutely dreading it! It will be only me who will be at his beck and call for 2 weeks. My husband works and I have absolutely Noone else to have the children so everytime I go over to Grandad's I will have to take them with me.

I am absolutely dreading it.

I agree with those who say you need to get some clear boundaries in place quickly.Agree what you can and can't do and then set up a rota so you have clear days where you are not 'on duty'. If he wants a daily roast dinner he can order a variety from Wiltshire Farm Foods or similar and pop one in the oven or microwave when he wants to eat. If he has plenty money then get an electrician in to sort out the central heating controls so that he can reach them.With the wonders of modern technology I think you can also get controls that can be adjusted from a distance.
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Has he got a Lifeline system that he can call in an emergency as they can also be quite good for reassurance calls late at night. I have a friend who uses them when she is anxious at night and they would only call me if they thought it was a real emergency.
You all need to talk to him together. Once you have aqreed as a family what you can and cannot do,visit as a family group,you,your mum and sister and tell him how you can help but what the boundaries are. No phonecalls after 9.30pm unless dire emergency. Roast dinner on certain night but free to cook his own. Reiterate your own family needs and that everyone needs to stay well and sane otherwise he will be coping completely on his own.
If you do not think he is safe to drive you actually have a legal responsibility to inform DVLA and they will then arrange any competency testing etc.
He is a very lucky man to have such a supportive family around him but you must must look after yourselves too,especially your mum who will feel the most guilt about it all. Good luck.

As my grandmother got older she became increasingly demanding. It eventually came out that she thought people would only visit her if she needed things, so she kept needing and calling. She was finally persuaded that actually people would visit daily just for a chat......and she became less demanding over little things.

I have been know to say to my mum, that she had to look afterherself a bit or go back into a care home as I could not put the children's health at risk. this is not a nice thing to do but quite frankly I got into a screaming swearing mess after she asked for so much support after dad died. she rang saying there was no food in the house so I packed the children up and wemt to stay to organise it and found she had run out of one item but the cupboards, and freezer were full of food.

your mum needs to protect herself a bit. it is terriblyexhausting and will/has already ,ade her ill.

one of the hardest things to take is the change in our parents/gp's when they become old, like your grandad.

he wont even realise how selfish he is being, to him it'll feel normal.

try to get his GP on board, men his age will listen to a dr when he wont listen to you

and social services too

good luck op,

I haven't got much more to add to this. Wiltshire foods are a good idea bit whilst the rest of the family are away I might be tempted to get meals on wheels so a hot dinner arrives everyday and he can't ring you up for microwave issue.

Also it seems to me if everyone is away and it is just you, this is the perfect time to get a cleaner/Carer in and start getting him used to it. Just be blunt and say you won't be able to help him much as you have the children so this is what has been arranged and be very firm about going over.

Be warned about the Dementia assessment. Once you get a referral to the Memory clinic they write to the person with the appointment. This has happened to both me and a friend . Both our Mother's went ballistic, shouted at us and refused to speak to us. Make sure if the referral goes in, the appointment letter goes care of your Mum if at all possible.

Sorry you're all going through this, I think you are very right to be worried about your Mum. Mine has Dementia and it was the day I couldn't stop sobbing whilst hoovering that I realised something had to change as I was rapidly going under.

He sounds like a man who needs a dog. Something that he has to feel responsible for and stop him thinking about himself so much. I imagine that part of the calling up is loneliness which would be solved with a dog. If he has to make sure the dog has food it is more likely that he will feed himself too. Seriously, I do think a pet of some sort is the solution here.

Walking in memphis

Spot on post I think. Op you sound lovely.

OP, your grandad is old enough to have done National Service. Why not try the Royal British Legion and / or SSAFA. They might have ways of helping in some way.

He sounds like a man who needs a dog. Something that he has to feel responsible for

What, so thI OP has one more thing to look after? He doesn't need a dog. He needs a dementia assessment and some clear boundaries putting into place.

Depression is very common in these situations too. You are in a tough situation OP. Getting him to the GP is you're next challenge. Good luck.

You can't give him a telling off. He's old. He's bereaved, he's lost his leg.

Twaddle. It is critical that elderly people are encouraged to maintain their independence. By allowing him to treat you as his serfs, you are (despite the best of intentions) harming him as well as yourselves by allowing him to be overly-dependent.

He might have dementia, but it's more likely that this behaviour is a toxic combination of bereavement and fear of loss of independence, overlying an existing controlling personality. It is not unusual at all to see these behaviours. (I'm a GP). You need to set boundaries firmly but with kindness. A GP assessment is a good idea - he may well be depressed.

Re driving - you can inform the DVLA.

How can you think of telling him off. Talk to him - yes but with understanding and kindness. He may have the onset of dementia, he may be in pain from his amputation and scared to do anything about it, he may have some sort of infection. He is still grieving and lonely. He needs an assessment from his GP and care assessment from SS. Post in Elderly parents group where there is lots of help in there as to the way forward.

I have to leave the house about 10 minutes ago but I wonder if he has any other personality changes. How old is he? My first thought was; frontal lobe dementia which can dramatically change someone's behaviour.

I'll return later...

I don't know anything about dementia, but stress, grief, anxiety about having to cope (and being 'abandoned' as it were by his wife/lifetime carer) - all make us selfish and stop our minds working properly. He may be needing constant reassurance that he isn't really 'alone' now?

BUT: The lovely man you remember would not want to be the cause of so much misery presumably? I do think it is unkind in its own way, to allow someone (anyone, not just this situation!) to make you so exhausted/resentful/ill/fed up with them, without giving them a chance to fix it. He wouldn't want to be remembered like this? You owe it to him as well as yourselves to sort it out!

And yes, obviously easy for me to say - I'm not in your situation. But perhaps it will help you all, if you can also think about it in this way a bit?

You need to STOP. All of you.

Your mum shouldn't clean after he has sent cleaners away. Ditto the gardner. He has their help of the job doesn't get done. Simple as that.

Set the heating. Leave it. You really went there at midnight to change it? This will sound harsh (but I am angry on your behalf!) but more fool you.

You have a2 year old and and a 8 month old and he expects this of you? He is incredibly selfish and will let you continue until you all burn out.

You aren't actually doing him any favours by doing all this for him. He is more than capable of learning how to do these things.

There was no need to cancel christmas due to his doagnosis.