...to think that sex at 13 is NOT normal?

[WotchOotErAPolis]

Now that dear old Nanny State is considering distributing sex-ed material saying that sex at 13 is normal, AIBU to think that it's condoning illegal and unwise behaviour?

www.christianconcern.com/our-concerns/education/schools-being-told-sex-at-13-is-normal

'I do tend to mix with parents who wouldn't allow this type of thing'

Yeah, right.

Percy

Some people don't encourage underage sex, the parents I know don't.
Perhaps it does suggest values that others don't have, but each to their own.

No one seriously encourages underage sex though. But to stick your fingers in your ears and say 'lalalala' doesn't mean it doesn't happen. And doesn't mean it doesn't happen with children from supposedly 'nice' families.

I didn't encourage my dd to have underage sex. We discussed the pill at 14 and I went through all my reasons for me thinking she was too young, such as 'did she think she could cope with a baby/abortion at that age' if the pill didn't work. She came to the conclusion that she couldn't and so she didn't and waited until she was older.

As the saying goes 'where there's a will, there's a bush' - people who are intent on having sex will find a way, even young people. Even young teens whose parents know where they are.

The vast majority of 13-16 yo don't have sex, but some do and some of those have happy, healthy relationships; many don't.

I get really quite irked by theses discussion sometimes because there is such a focus on 'sex' when really we should all worry much more about raising our children confident, with a strong sense of self-worth, boundaries, broad interests, hobbies they have fun doing and which give them a sense of pride.
I suspect that the vast majority of MN parents are involved in their children's lives, talk to them, worry about them and put a lot of effort in to their parenting. There are many children out there who do not have the privilege of growing up with loving support and many public policies are aimed at those very vulnerable youngsters.

I am appalled at the easy access to horrific violent hard-core pornography that v young teens now have - make the occasional underwear catalogue smuggled in to school by some of the boys in my class seem ludicrously tame by comparison.
I worry about what kind of world our children grow up in and the pressures they find themselves under (girls to be 'available' to all sorts of sexual activity, boys to 'want it' all the time). Knowing about the mechanics is the least of my worries tbh.

I think as parents we should not flatter ourselves that we can 'control' what our children get up to every minute of every day - no matter how well-meaning we may by. IMO the most important 'sex'/relationship education happens before they are 10: be kind to others and yourself, have respect and consideration and trust yourself - if you feel uncomfortable about something, it's probably wrong. The rest is up to them and us trusting their judgement. I have no idea what the next 10 years will bring for my offspring (eldest is 11), but all I am hoping is that I have encouraged open lines of communication. Fingers crossed.

Enormous misconceptions about what this guidance is about on this thread (with some honourable exceptions) and how "normal" is being used in it. If I understand correctly, what they are saying is that in the 13-17 bracket, interest in and actually having sex are quite capable of being normal behaviour, in the sense that it is unlikely to be the result of abuse/inappropriate learned behaviour in relation to sex etc. etc. That doesn't mean it should be condoned, or that it is necessarily not a cause for concern, whether due to abuse or for any other reason.

Or to put it another way, children aged 13 and over are likely to be (or be well on the way be becoming) sexual beings. I personally think that it is an entirely fair conclusion - for example I was definitely masturbating at 13 and I don't think I was precocious at all. That is not the same thing as saying that it is ok for them to be having sex!

Pacific all extremely thoughtful and wise stuff, and the learning you describe for under 10s is IMO exactly what will enable them to cope in an appropriate way with their emerging sexuality as early teens.

What YouTheCat said.

I don't think I've ever seen parents of young teens waving pom-poms for underage sex. The idea that anyone is 'encourages' underage sex is bizarre.

Some will be having sex, some won't. I wasn't at 13, however my cousin was pregnant at that age.

I agree with sex education from 13, there bodies are changing, it allows them some sense of understanding and knowledge when they do finally feel 'ready' to engage in sex.

The poster....

My best friend was having sex at 13. She was also also leading a section in a national orchestra, singing in the church choir, Mum a SAHM, Dad an MD, two cars, skiing holidays etc. got great exam results. A. 'Nice ' family, with strong Christian values.

You just cannot judge that only 'bad' kids do this. ( and I think you really mean poor or disengaged)

I notice OP hasn't bothered to debate the subject.
AIBU? ...

Maybe those who feel Christian Concern are biased would be happier with the BBC's take on the issue.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-29903233

I think the truth is that any child can go down this path but it is more likely to be the kids who's parents have never talked to them about sex and healthy relationships who will experiment earlier than healthy. That is why there needs to be good 'relationships' education in schools, mainly to provide for the kids whose parents have not discussed it with them and are in some cases modelling really unhealthy attitudes to relationships. However, the difficulty for schools is finding the balance between meeting the needs of those kids who may already be sexually active whilst maintaining a sense for the other kids that sexual intercourse is an adult activity and should preferably be within a committed relationship. Lets face it, there are many adults who no longer accept that sex should only be for within a committed relationship.

Sorry, vdb- the Family Education Trust is equally biased. Read what people who actually know what they are talking about on this thread say, and be reassured.

"Lets face it, there are many adults who no longer accept that sex should only be for within a committed relationship."

Of course there are. There actually always have been.

Isn't it about capacity? Children under 13 are not deemed to have the capacity to understand/consent to sex, but those who are 13 and over do, hence the age range referenced.

No, this is not about capacity.

I am not sure how the 13 year cut off was set - anybody know?

I didn't mean the whole point was about capacity - rather that the age 13 was used as a threshold because under that age a child cannot give consent and therefore not relevant to the group being referenced.

It is my understanding that the age of consent has been set to 16 because children younger than that don't have the capacity to consent.
Which is why in the eyes of the law two 15 year olds having sex break the law but don't get prosecuted.

IIRC, the age of the 13 is when it is deemed that a child cannot at all consent to sex, whereas a 15 year old, with a boyfriend in the same year at school, could be viewed differently.

Again, IIRC, the age of both in the relationship is taken into account legally and also in terms of child protection, so a 15 year old in a relationship with a 25 year old may be viewed differently from two 14 year olds in a relationship together.

However, this may change as we are learning more about alarming rates of domestic violence in relationships among teenagers - the Nspcc report into this makes shocking reading.

I do think there's a tendency to shrug our shoulders about underage sex as inevitable and just focus on contraceptive advice and this, coupled with a society that has a very skewed mix.of sexualisation and objectification can be very damaging.

For many, many, reasons it's better not to have sex underage and I wish sex education could do a better job of empowering young people to want that for themselves.

My understanding is that over the age of 13 children are deemed to have the capacity to understand/consent (whether legal or not) to sex, but that under that age they don't have the capacity to do so and therefore it's automatically rape, sexual assault or causing sexual activity without consent.

"For many, many, reasons it's better not to have sex underage and I wish sex education could do a better job of empowering young people to want that for themselves."

I think school sex education does as good a job as it can- but it's influence is completely swamped by everything else around them......

Agree with IPity - more education needed, but not just sex ed. CSE is a massive problem in this age range and I think that's more about life skills, relationships and personal self esteem.

I was sexualy active around the age of 13/14 - I knew about sex, the pill and all those things. I knew it all obviously and was very grown up.

But, as I see it now, I was vulnerable and my self-esteem non-existent, I got into very inappropriate relationships which could have turned out very badly for me.

Certainly if a 13 year old boy has sex with a 12 year old girl (even if she consents) he would be charged with rape as she is deemed unable to consent.
Then it all gets woolly as it is still illegal for 13-15 year olds but they are unlikely to be charged with anything unless it it not consensual on one side (although presumably a disgruntled parent could press charges?!) and then it gets really woolly as if a 15 year old boy has been regularly having sex with his 14 year old girlfriend and he then turns 16, he could then be put on the sex offenders register for having sex with someone under the age of 16. What a muddle!

Crosspost but agree with all the above comments. I don't envy schools their job as they have such a broad range of kids to educate. But I think that if the emphasis is on self esteem and healthy equal relationships and less focussed on early sexual experience being inevitable therefore we will tell them all the practicalities as young as possible, then kids are more likely to get the message. I genuinely think that many schools do try to do this and I think that there is a growing emphasis on self esteem issues which I don't remember ever discussing at school.

IMO the legality of having sex is kind of beside the point wrt to 'Health and Wellbeing Education' as it's termed in my kids' school and it is really far too late by the time children start experimenting.
I totally agree and I've said upthread it's about giving them confidence, respect and fulfilled lives on top of learning the facts.

I see far too many girls in particular who start menstruating when quite young (9-10) and know nothing - they are all terrified and of course at risk of inappropriately young sexual encounters. I remember being told 'oh, now you've turned in to a woman' which was just very confusing and scary for me at the time...