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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To ask who you're voting for next May?

454 replies

NickiFury · 03/11/2014 23:39

Me, Labour.

OP posts:
Sallyingforth · 09/11/2014 10:40

Deedee. Thanks for that. It's good to start the day with a laugh.

FannyFifer · 09/11/2014 10:55

You think it's a laugh that Britains poorest folk are suffering due to the cuts & austerity measures, yeah it's really really funny that folk are starving to death, hysterical in fact.

TheDogsMissingBollock · 09/11/2014 11:29

"Starving to death?" In the UK??! Please!! I have lived in several developing countries and have witnessed what that really looks like. No sign of any such suffering in the Uk. Offensive to say otherwise.

NoArmaniNoPunani · 09/11/2014 11:31

The dogs: what about this chap?
www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/killed-benefits-cuts-starving-soldier-3923771

FannyFifer · 09/11/2014 11:45

The Dogs, lucky you that you have no experience of dealing with people in such dire situations.

FrancesNiadova · 09/11/2014 11:55

Monster Raving Loony Party seems the most sensible option at the moment!

Sallyingforth · 09/11/2014 11:59

Fanny
As I'm sure you really understood, I meant no such thing.

FannyFifer · 09/11/2014 12:16

Do you don't find the vulnerable being harangued funny then, only that's not what your comment suggested.

FannyFifer · 09/11/2014 12:17

So not do.

crapcrapcrapcrap · 09/11/2014 12:43

Clearly there's a lot of people using MN who are comfortable in their oblivion. If there's not a homeless person sleeping on your driveway and your own children enjoy three meals a day then everything's good in the hood, yeah?

I am ashamed of this country and its utter denial and ignorance of how deeply impoverished some of our fellow citizens are.

Viviennemary · 09/11/2014 14:00

I don't think Labour will do anything to help people who are living in poverty. They still existed under Labour. Labour has got no answers to this country's problems and that's why a lot of people can't be bothered with them any more. And the head in the sand attitude to Miliband is just about the last straw.

A Labour person said he was an asset to the electoral campaign. Yes but not to Labour's. When will they get that into their heads.

TheDogsMissingBollock · 09/11/2014 14:13

I find it scary how oblivious many are here in the UK about what true, absolute poverty is as experienced by millions in the developing world. It is obscene to contend that we have anything like that here. Which is not to say that there is not suffering, RELATIVE poverty and destitution. All of which can be alleviated to some extent by the relatively generous welfare state/health system. As we don't live in a perfect world with a bottomless social care budget, there have been cuts and some prople slip through the net, sadly. That shouldn't happen, I agree.

Where i lived previously, the official definition of poverty was no access to running water, no indoor loo. Very basic stuff. Millions of kids, though fed, met the official criteria for being malnourished as they were filled up with a cheap porridge/meal type food of v low nutritional value and/or fast food as a cheap alternative. It was not Ethipoia either! The welfare support was abysmal- all basic services to be paid for and only very occasional, very low benefits given- a maternity grant of £100 for one whole year, for example.

I think there should always be adequate support for those in need in the UK, always. But the thresholds have been stretched and stretched over the years- what was set up by Beveridge et al to provide "cradle to grave" support for the worker and their family (on a contributions basis) only in times of need has moved far from its origins of "incentive, opportunity and responsibility" and at its extreme has created whole communities with generations of workless people.

It should pay so much more to work and the benefits system should reflect this. Many governments of all persuasions have failed to grapple with this, probably because they're all, inevitably, so short-termist.

crapcrapcrapcrap · 09/11/2014 14:54

Dogs i think you'll find that the generational dependency you talk of was not created by the welfare system, but by the decimation of industry. You've been buying into the Daily Mail stories.

TheDogsMissingBollock · 09/11/2014 14:59

Crap- i think you'll find i know my own mind. And have never read the DM, rather an assumption there for a difference of opinion. Actually i agree that the whole scale decimation of certain industries such as mining in the 1980s was partly the cause. But the benefits net enabled the situation to continue 30 years on by disincentivising many from working.

BoulevardOfBrokenSleep · 09/11/2014 15:17

"It should pay so much more to work and the benefits system should reflect this."

Well, no, the benefits system should reflect how much it costs to live to a very basic standard in the UK.

The fact that wages can be so low that they also only just cover the cost of living to a very basic standard in the UK is a separate issue.

ArsenicSoup · 09/11/2014 15:28

Well, no, the benefits system should reflect how much it costs to live to a very basic standard in the UK.

YY.

The rate of the National Minimum Wage is the thing that should reflect the notion that work should pay. That is what needs to change, not already miserly benefits levels.

www.livingwage.org.uk/

MrSheen · 09/11/2014 15:36

whole communities with generations of workless people

Can you link a source for this? The Joseph Rowntree Foundation spent many months looking for a family where 2 generations had never worked in some of the most deprived areas of the UK and couldn't find a single example, let alone 'whole communities'.

MrSheen · 09/11/2014 15:40

There is an issue that people are worse off by working. This isn't due to an overly generous benefit system, but low wages and high transport and childcare costs. The slashing of the safety net and the complete failure to generate secure jobs hasn't helped as it has created a system where people will accept shittier and shittier pay and conditions to make sure that they don't fall.

OnlyLovers · 10/11/2014 11:42

MrSheen, I was going to say the same thing about the 'generations of people who've never worked' chimera. I'm heartily sick of hearing about it, especially in the face of robust evidence to the contrary.

Dogs, why on earth do you think people on here are 'oblivious' to poverty in the developing world? It is entirely possible to be aware of poverty in more than one place and to realise that levels of poverty are relative.

WillkommenBienvenue · 11/11/2014 01:29

The advantages of a high minimum wage are

Increased investment in workers, employers will want to retain their staff and make sure they are well trained

Saving the state money on tax credits and other top up benefits

More cash circulating because people will feel more secure in their jobs

Less immigration because employers will want committed workers who aren't going to be leaving to go 'home'. And all the advantages that go along with less immigration.

People having pride in their job, even if it's chicken gutting because their employers are treating them better.

Who benefits from cheap labour? Big business and the wealthy.

Labour need to rip it all up and start again. Tweaking finance to appease business leaders and investors will get us nowhere. If people have no dignity they have nothing.

Innermagic · 11/11/2014 01:47

SNP all the way

KimHollywood · 11/11/2014 02:02

Only voting Labour to get the tories out? What a stupid way to vote. Makes me ashamed to be British.

Discopanda · 11/11/2014 03:20

I must say it's frustrating the amount of people saying that they are planning to vote for Labour regardless of their policies because they want the Tories out. Please do not waste your vote, if you aren't happy with either party do some research into the other, smaller parties (obviously I don't mean BNP), it doesn't have to be a two horse race.

WillkommenBienvenue · 11/11/2014 08:19

DiscopNda a lot of people wasted their vote last time. I agree with you in principle, as I said upthread a lib green lab pact or left coalition would work for me. Just sad it didn't happen last time, that was Milliband's fault as well.

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