To hope William Cornick spends at least the next 50 years in prison if not the rest of his life.

[smokepole]

William Cornick should never be released from prison, for his horrific and brutal attack on Ann Maguire. The judge has sentenced him to a minimum sentence of 20 years, no doubt based on his age. However, despite his teenage years and the stupidity and thoughtlessness that comes from these years his crime was so appalling he should spend the rest of his life in prison.

The only country that sentences children to full life terms is the USA, that is called a injustice by most of the world , because it does not allow for rehabilitation of children. William Cornick can not be rehabilitated for this crime and despite what the European court of human rights will say , he should serve the maximum sentence available under English law "Life in Prison".

The parents of Cornick must be living in a nightmare, wondering how they have bred such an evil child and thinking they are to blame for not stopping him from committing this heinous crime.

There's another thing that marks him out from most murderers, which is that he didn't make any attempt to hide his crime. Most people who murder in cold blood (as opposed to, say, someone who kills someone in a fit of rage) try to get away with it. He committed his crime in front of a class full of children and had apparently said he wanted to spend his life in prison as adult life had nothing to offer him. That is abnormal in the extreme, surely?

I feel that comparing a fifteen year old to Ian Bradey is a step too far.

" I think he's a psychopath too but has he been assessed?

Yes, three reports are referenced in the Sentencing Remarks.

Apologies for not reading the whole thread.

I agree, making no attempt to 'get away' with the crime afterwards is so strange. Is he so detached that the consequences are too far down the line for him to contemplate? or he doesn't care at all about the judgement directed at him? Most criminals would still CARE about others' unanimous low opinion of them.

Iwasinamandbunit I have OCD as one of my issues, not the sort people think of as just wanting stuff clean and tidy. I see things in my head and worry I have done them or I'm going to do them.

Yes. DS is a teenager with OCD and has similar terrifying thoughts. His response to these awful news reports was 'How do I know I wouldn't do that to someone?'

He has told plenty of people that he obsesses about knives and hurting people. His therapist assures him and us that this is OCD talking and that he isn't at risk of actually being violent.

But it took 9 months to get a therapist for a child who was saying he thought he might knife someone.

I've read a lot about murderers as I work in law. I've watched documentaries, I've read books, so I know quite a lot about a murderer's personality. There have been a lot of psychopathic criminals who are classed as legally sane.
They have told us that he has psychopathic elements to his personality. Personally, we want to believe that and he wants to shock people, thats why I think he's said those things to the psychiatrist. He literally can't piece together in his head right from wrong, he has a personality disorder.
Those with personality disorders are extremely hard to help, you can basically only help them with meds, he doesn't need meds, he needs actual help. (I'm only saying this from a murderer's mental health, btw. I know a lot of people do have MH problems and DO get help, but they want it. Psychopaths don't, so all you can do is drug them up)
but if his mental health status gets worse, say he has a psychotic break, he really is beyond rehabilitation.
He is dangerous. He is homicidal. He is also suicidal. He won't want to be helped! Obviously, he has said that he WANTS to be in prison, why not section him? It's because he's actually sane. He's legally sane, maybe not medically, but legally he is sane. Put it this way - Jeffrey Dahmer was legally sane.
What he has done has shocked us, every person in this country has been chilled to the bone by what this evil child has done, she was my teacher, she was my sister's teacher, my friends' teacher. She was our "school mum" and I am disgusted by what he has done, BUT
He won't ever be let out, if he does he will be sent to a mental ward somewhere, probably the one close to us (we all live in the same area... figures...) and spend the rest of his days in there, or, he will be sent to a high security ward. he is very dangrous to himself and to others.
Courts have to take the public interest into account, thats why they named him. through hear-say, everyone knew. I only knew because I went to the school years ago and knew people who knew people. My little sister is still in the school. Anyway, the courts had to name him.
People are not caring that he has a family, too. I mean, It's something I'd never say out loud. I do not care for Will at all. I care for his family. Can you imagine how much shit they're getting? They still have a son, and although what he did was disgusting, and they will know that, can you imagine what it would be like to hear "william actually needs to kill himself, he needs to be beaten to death, he needs to rot in jail, this this that that" it must be awful to read all this for the family. My mum bless her, she said if me or my Dsis did anything like this, we'd still be loved by our family no matter what we did. I don't know, I am upset and every time I see my old teachers face, my heart just drops even more. But people need to think about his family. His family are lovely.

Also surely he must be mentally ill to have behaved the way he did
Like I said. There have been serial killers who are legally sane, because what they do are [most of the time] sexual disorders NOT mental ones. see above post - the one I mentioned. He wasn't mentally ill as he knew what he was doing.
Legally, to act out of MHproblems, you shouldn't be able to piece together right from wrong. He knew what he was doing.
He is not mentally ill in the sense that he can't know right from wrong.
He may have depression and be a sociopath, but he's able to know what he did is wrong, and he does know it.
He isn't mentally ill, in the legal sense of the word.
Also, this is not the US. If it was in the US, it would be a murder/suicide as school murders usually are. I think we'd benefit more from having their justice system. We'd do it better and make sure if anyone did get put on death row, beyond any shadow of a doubt, committed that crime. a lot of people on death row in the US are innocent, and I find, that's where its justice system falls short.

We'd do it better

Sadly, the history of miscarriages of justice in British courts suggests otherwise.

"He isn't mentally ill, in the legal sense of the word."

I believe there is a distinction between mental illness and a personality disorder, in that mental illness can be treated whereas personality disorders can't - is that right? So in essence he is deemed not to be mentally ill because he has a condition that can't be treated.

i think something happens in teenagers brains.....look at all the shootings and murders taking place in schools over the past few years

I wonder had this boy shown 'empathy' before puberty set in.....I bet he did. must have. or there would be recorded incidents of issues before that point

Sorry, not sure I was clear above: it took us 9 months to get help for our own child when he was afraid he might hurt someone. No idea if anyone tried and failed to access that sort of help for William Cornick.

Appalled at the suggestions that we should follow the US system. Some of the cases of children (usually poor children from ethnic minorities) being locked up at the age of 12 or 13 for life without parole are horrific.

This particular case is a tragedy, clearly much mental health assessment needs to be done before this young man can be let out in 20 years time (my gut feel is he never will) but there should always be room for a parole board once the minimum tariff has been passed especially when the crime has been committed by such a young person.

As for people who are arguing that the murderer does not have mental health issues. Ok so he is legally sane (knows right from wrong) but there is something that has gone terribly wrong in his brain to allow him (at age 15) to do this. I can't help but have some compassion for someone whose whole life has been ruined at age 15 (this does not undermine the greater compassion one feels for the victim and family). Statements that he should rot or be beaten to death in prison are don't help.

hackmum
Even psychiatrists don't fully understand a personality disorder because there are THAT MANY different ones. And no, he is deemed legally not mentally ill because he knows right from wrong. Legally, mentally ill means you cannot be held responsible for the murder as you don't know what you're doing is wrong.
Parent
I belive he hid it for a long time. DSis is in the school and has told me disturbing things about the boy - used to cut himself at parties and such and people found it funny. I would have done something about it. First hand experience - self harm isn't funny.
I believe William hid it from everyone. He just wanted to do it because he had it in his head his life would be easier in prison.
what a div.

cran i agree. Those comments aren't helping but, murder is murder is murder. It's not in the public interest to ever let this boy out of prison. Like I said above, courts need to take public interest into account. they needed to name him, and they need to not let him out if they are saying he's dangerous. He won't want rehab.
Any road, I think if he gets out, he'll kill again to get back in. If he wants to be in jail, he will do anything to stay in there.

20 years at 16 is forever.
he will miss a massive chunk of his life, I just hope he serves at least that.
my sympathy lies with the teachers family/friends and pupils and his parents and family who will have to live with what he did.

This twisted soul is as close to a monster as we'll ever find. I feel deeply sorry for the boy in question, he has been dealt psychopathy as his hand, and he's an out and out danger that must be kept away from people for the rest of his natural life. He surely did not ask for this disorder, but nevertheless he has it, and how.

His crime is as shocking as any notorious psychopath that has made the headlines, in that although he only killed once, he calmly, violently killed in full view of his peers and thereafter felt pride.
He cannot be rehabilitated, he can only be kept apart.

My heart breaks for his poor mother.

"I just hope he serves at least that"

The judge's summary said that 20 years is the least he can serve, it can't be cut down in any way (other than the court of appeal, I guess, but I doubt that would get far).

How does a barrister defend in this situation? I can't imagine having to try to shorten the sentence of someone who is so clearly dangerous.

and father....

Haven't read the whole thread, but the judge did say his release date may never come, due to the lack of any kind of remorse.

If there is no remorse, then there is no hope of rehabilitation.

However, 20 years is a long time in the life of someone who is only 16. He is still in the stage where he is revelling in his actions. I bet my bottom dollar that in ten/fifteen years time he will be wanting out of prison and doing everything he can to try to convince the authorities that he is a reformed character.

Yes of course...and father.
I read that William lived with his mum, and the father lived with his second wife and their son.
I think of her as being more alone I suppose.

Why did none of the other students alert anyone? When he showed them the knives? I'm pretty sure when I was at school if someone had bought knives in and stated they were going to kill a teacher someone would have done something - phoned the police or alerted the head. Or were they all too afraid? What about the friend he spoke to on FB? Did no one believe he would really do it?

I don't think anyone can blame the classmates for the crime. That would be unfair.

When children are scared rational reasoning goes out the window. I expect fear is why the boys classmates did not tell a teacher the boy had a knife.

I'm not blaming them...more just sort of wondering why no one said anything. It seems he was very vocal in his plans. Unless maybe no one thought he was serious.

On rehabilitation, I agree it would be worth attempting if there were a bottomless pit of public funds. As there is not, I'd rather funds be spent on more worthwhile causes, like educating our children, the nhs or public sector pay. Why should we waste more money on this evil excuse for a human?

But is it a waste? It will cost at least £50K per year to keep him in prison, and that sum will only go up over time. Doesn't it make sense to use some of that money in rehabilitation rather than containment? And if he is rehabilitated, doesn't that ultimately save us an awful lot of money?

I know it's a long shot, and I suspect the judge may well be right in saying that he may never be releasable. But say, for the sake of argument, medical science comes up with something over the next 20 years which is a realistic cure for psychopathic tendencies - are we really saying that, even if that happened, we should throw away the key on this child?

it did state he had threatened to kill them if they told anyone....