....to ask what you think of white poppies (Remembrance-related)?

[PlumpingUpPartridge]

I had been dimly aware of the existence of white poppies but hadn't really given them much thought until DH mentioned them this weekend. I checked out the website and saw this:

linky

I liked this quote:

"In 1933 the first white poppies appeared on Armistice Day (called Remembrance Day after World War Two). The white poppy was not intended as an insult to those who died in the First World War - a war in which many of the white poppy supporters lost husbands, brothers, sons and lovers - but a challenge to the continuing drive to war. The following year the newly founded Peace Pledge Union began widespread distribution of the poppies and their annual promotion."

I am very happy to express my admiration and respect for those who died in wars, but I don't particularly want to see any more wars. I don't know what the alternative is, but I'd like to see more effort go into finding it.

I've been sifting through the threads and noticed some anti-white poppy feeling (along the lines of 'it's disrespectful'). I didn't grow up here so don't have childhood experience to guide me on this. Please can you tell me what you think of it and, if you think it's disrespectful, why?

I'm not a journalist by the way, just curious and trying to be impartial

I haven't had time to read all the thread. But given the war after 1933 was against Hitler the OP inadvertently shows why sometimes war is an unpleasant necessity.

Sunna, ItsAll,

The original is 6 minutes long. Twice as long as an average 'pop' song. It had to be cut to compete with other 'average' songs and so that people would buy it.

It's an OK song, nothing special. It won't sell that well I doubt - too maudlin.

The (it must be said hugely successful) campaign by the red poppy people to 'own' remembrance is the most reprehensible aspect of this whole false orthodoxy in my view

Really well put.

Both my grandfathers fought in both wars, and one of my grandfathers was killed in the second, with effects still felt in the family to this day. I have other relatives who survived Dachau.

I object to some of the public sanctimoniousness around the red poppy, and reject the ongoing war-mongering that is done in my name.

Eve - just a coincidence that they left out the anti-war sentiments? I don't think so.

I wonder if Eric Bogle gave permission for- or even knows about - the cuts?

So Sunna... You're saying the RBL is pro war?

sunna thank you for that link - DH and I listened to the song this morning and found it very moving. I'll share it around, I think. The removal of anti-war sections does seem sadly in character with the RBL's general publicity stance.

eve, as you say, the original is a bit long but the omissions feel a bit telling.

Well if you say so, but of course that will be down to Joss Stone, her manager and promoter, rather than the RBL. They were the ones that chose the song after all. Maybe Joss didn't like the original?

meoverhere I'd say more that the RBL have deliberately excluded any content which may cause negative feeling towards the current military.

eve, who knows?

Well the people that chose the song, the people that cut verses/lines out, the people that would have had to approach the 'owner' of the song/lyrics to be able to cover it, the people receiving Royalties for the use of the song - they would know - in other words, Joss Stones' very sucessful Management Team.

Why do you assume that the RBL did all that and not the person singing and promoting the song?

Joss Stone, Jeff Beck, Jon Cohen and Jonathan Joseph chose, rewrote, remastered and produced the song btw. 40% of the profits from its sale go to the RBL. It wasn't an altruistic decision to release it.

I wonder if he knows what they've done to it. He's getting on a bit and lives in Oz now.

eve I don't think they had much say in generation of content, but they have accepted the version offered. I imagine that they are doing Joss Stone a favour as much as she's doing one for them, so surely they could have said something if they felt strongly about it.

I imagine they're happy with this version though because, as I said, it doesn't have the same emphasis on the horrors of war and the implied futility of military action. I'm not surprised - they'd piss off a lot of their supporters if they implied that we shouldn't have military action.

Oh, Eve, come on!

It was a an anti war song. A very powerful, moving anti war song. That's what it was written for. And now it isn't. Are you really, really saying that the cuts weren't deliberate? That it was just a matter of legnth? Surely you're not that naive?

No, not naive. Just know that for the song to have been used the record company would have had to have been in talks with the owner before any revisions or changes would have been made (anything over 8 single beats on a copy written song). The management company would have been the ones to do this - it's the law. Now who is naive?

So are you saying that the RBL is not involved at all?

Not in the choice of song or how it was produced, no. Joss Stone says that herself. Her and Jeff Beck chose the song, remastered it to suit their 'style' (light soul), Beck wrote a guitar riff that suited the new sound and then released it.

The copywriter owner of the song would have had to agree to all changes for them to have done this - that's copywrite law.

Just seen this on FB - a friend is sending it round. Great minds!

www.facebook.com/groups/802631066476662/?pnref=story

And here's a link with a petition.

Sorry. Link

Thanks Hak. It really is outrageous.

William McBride is the best anti-war song written.

I sang it (in its entirety) at the last open mic session in our village pub. It was the first time several people had heard it, and it certainly provoked thought.

Sanitising it shows a deep lack of respect and understanding.

I actually heard Eric Bogle sing it- I think in Edinburgh - in the late 1970s. I can only assume he must be very short of money. Or he gave up the rights for some reason. I just think it's outrageous. So cynical.

Ooh, sunna. DH and I listened this morning and there was no advert at the start.

I'm listening now and there's a Joss Stone advert at the start of it

The RBL didn't change the song. They didn't even choose the song, Joss Stone and Jeff Beck did!

That petition is ridiculous, it just confirms that empty vessels make the most noise, and people are quick to jump on a bandwagon!