To think it's not on to smoke and then go into somebody's home?

[Hedgehogcrossing]

My great aunt for whom I am one of the next of kin has carers as she has dementia.

I have to admit I haven't generally been thrilled with the service: they never stick to the times allocated and don't seem very caring in some cases but also many of them smell very strongly of cigarette smoke - I think they must be lighting up then literally coming in. As great aunt needs personal care they are breathing it right in her face as well as preparing her food which just strikes me as horrible.

AIBU?

It isn't my issue - not just my issue at any rate.

Dementia (Alzheimer's) is a condition that worsens and I'm sure many realise is terminal. One of the side affects is sensitivity to smells and GA is confused and upset especially as her sight is not very good.

As I have said a stale whiff from a cig an hour would be one thing but I think most of us know how powerful smokers' breath is when they've just had one.

Hang on, what assumptions??

And, in what way are the carers exploiting your relative?

What is the main issue here Hedgehog? I think if you feel the carers are behaving in a callous or unprofessional way towards your Aunt then that it unacceptable and you need to act on her behalf. If they are regularly arriving along time outside of the scheduled times then that is a problem too, you need to take that up with the agency because it will be because they are expecting the carers to work to an impossible schedule. Compared to these issues the smoking one seems very minor to me though and I don't see that as being exploitative of your aunt. I hope this doesn't come across as unsympathetic, dementia is a terrible illness, it sounds like you and your aunt are really struggling in a very difficult situation and I hope things improve soon.

TooMuch, she is being exploited by as I've explained people turning up whenever it suits them, which means she can be left for hours at a time. She is exploited by not being treated with consideration or kindness - the smoking makes her feel sick, yet it carries on.

FWIW we deliberately paid for two carers to allow ample time for them to complete tasks in the time allocated and certainly haven't complained. I DO understand that it's a difficult job. But I don't really see why all the understanding and compassion is one way when at the end of it there's still a confused and frail and unwell old lady who happens to have a heart of gold!

It's unlikely that they are messing around with the times they arrive just because they are unprofessional, they probably don't have much choice.

And while I get that it's not nice for them to smell of smoke, they are smoking on their own time, probably rushing between clients and they are not lesser people just because they choose to smoke.

You sound angry at the whole situation, but really, none if it is the fault if the individual carers.

The call times are not the carers fault, take that up with the main office. The carers just get a time table to work to. They probably smoke in their car between visits because they can't fit in proper breaks. My sister in laws call times are so tight that she has to break speed limits to get from one to another on time.

However, the smell of smoke is indeed unpleasant. While they are not paid for times between calls and so can technically do what they want, it is inconsiderate. I used to work in a job where I got unpaid breaks and could smoke in them, but it involved a five minute walk off-site, then 5 mins back, which cut into my 15 min break to the point where it just wasn't worth doing it any more. It didn't leave me time for a snack and a wee as well. So I ended up not smoking during work hours. I know it's not the same situation but people do end up not smoking during work hours because it is inconvenient or unsuitable with work.

So while they are entitled to smoke during breaks, it would be considerate if they refrained.

Why don't you pay for an extra half hour of time to cover when the carers are travelling to your aunt's? Then as they're on company time, you can quite reasonably dictate how they spend it.

I very much doubt they turn up when suits them, rather they go where they are told when they are told. If they didn't, they would be fired.
Why don't you take your complaints to the people running the show, the ones who actually make the money, decide the timetables, set the policies etc?

I really don't think it matters whether the breaks are paid or not. It is about showing consideration and respect to the people they are meant to be caring for.

You need to take it up with the care provider OP, but if they are consistently late as well then I would be considering changing care provider if possible.

ILove - I have raised it (nicely) with the agency, and as I have said I do understand that sometimes emergencies will happen or situations will arise that mean they can't keep to the allocated time.

The problem is that take the lunch time appointment. I would say a reasonable time for lunch is between 12 and 1. But carers turn up sometimes at 11 o clock - I suspect so they can finish early! The problem is that obviously GA is oblivious to what time they come so we only know if one of us happens to be there.

Then the dinner time call is down for 5 but again I would say between 5 and 5:30 is fine, she goes to bed at 8. But we've had carers turning up at 3! So let's say at lunch the carer turns up at 1 and then GA has her dinner 2 hours later - then 5 hours before bed. Bear in mind she's incontinent so if she is wet she then sits for 5 hours in it

She's losing weight because she feels sick - too sick to eat - because of the smell of smoke and I understand this, if I didn't know better - well I hope not - I'd honestly think they'd been smoking in her lounge. It's REALLY strong. I thought it might have been me being sensitive but my brother said he could smell it too and believe me his sense of smell isn't strong.

I suppose in a way the smoking is symptomatic of just feeling like she's a nuisance to them, which breaks my heart. She's an incredible person. Obviously, I don't think the conditions care workers work under are acceptable but realistically what in earth can I actually do? Surely it doesn't mean that it's okay she's out off her food, or left in poo stained clothes? People would go mad if it was their DC, why is it okay because she's elderly?

I was a carer for two years. It is a badly run profession, and badly paid. But that said I choose to do it I could have worked in other equally badly paid work but choose to work with people, who are vulnerable.

Going in stinking of fags is not professional in any job but less so going into people's homes. Especially those who may not feel they can tell you.

Also smokers never realise how vile they smell, and covering up with mints and spray doesn't work. (until they give up - then it's a shock)

Hedgehog, why not put in a camera to monitor what is going on. I will if my parents ever need care after seeing some of the other people that worked with me.

I think you should speak to the care agency about your concerns re your aunt having to wait for long periods between visits. This is unlikely to be caused by the carers wasting time smoking though, much more likely to be due to the care agency taking on more clients but not increasing the number off staff. It's the agency exploiting vulnerable people, not the carers, they are merely smoking in the car between visits.

I honestly wouldn't be so bothered about the smoke if it wasn't for the fact they know GA is distressed by the smell, it is explicitly stated in her care plan that she is, she also doesn't like the smell of very strong perfume.

Treacle some of the carers are lovely. Thank you for doing a wonderful job in difficult conditions.

Right, well that's where you are going wrong then.

It's an flat out certainty they aren't doing it "to suit them".

If you've not complained how will things change?

Smelling of smoke is not exploiting someone. Although it can be something they just don't want.

Sit down and talk to the agency. They set the runs, including the order of the calls and the times they take place. Explain the problems and do not blame the carers because I can be certain the majority of your problems are not the fault of the carers. The agency need to know you are serious and that you will not accept passing the buck onto the front line staff who are doing their best - because that's the usual get out - to blame the staff. The number of times I've heard/been part of "the office said you....." and had to remain professional and polite whilst my name and efforts are dragged through a bilge of lies.

The agency set the rota, they set the call lengths, they set the travel times, they provide cover in an emergency/sickness, they need to fix the problems you are facing. They are not happening because the staff can't be arsed.

Like I said before, tell them you want non smokers.

But theCow while I see your point we get a rota weekly with times on it. I am on holiday this week and was with GA today at 3:15 when in sauntered the carers, I didn't know whether it was a late dinner time call or early tea time call. That's not the first time it's happened, but we don't always know it's happening.

Just as a disclaimer I would totally understand if as occasionally has happened there is an emergency elsewhere but I don't think it is that, I think they just turn up when suits them really

TooMuch, I'm actually anxious about engaging with you too much on here, but I have spoken to the agency.

However I can see that it is largely based on trust, the care workers assure agency they won't smoke, I am assured they turn up at X time - and then one day you find out the opposite.

At any rate I'm leaving this thread now as while you have accused me of rudeness I have found your posts overbearing and aggressive, and no doubt your comeback will be that 'it is AIBU' so enjoy - it doesn't mean I have to read it so I'm unsubscribing and hiding the thread, unlike my poor GA I do have a choice.

Yanbu op.

If carers were paid for coming into my home (or that of a relative) I would NOT be happy with them reeking. Bleughh.

I don't care if it's awful BO, fag smoke or general unwashed clothing - stinking of anything is unprofessional and disrespectful to the person who is being cared for, and I'd report it to the agency.

Fag smoke reeks, and a spritz of perfume and a gum doesn't stop you reeking. It's on your hair, hands, clothes, hair and it lingers for quite a few minutes. So smoking just before entering someone's house is not on.

you clearly don't like the carers and blame them for everything, even the stuff that is highly likely down to someone else.
Perhaps you need to pay more to get better care?

My GM is having home care at the moment and we've installed internet and IP cameras, they are positioned so we can see who is coming and the stairs but not to invade GM's privacy.

Her carers have to check in using GM's phone with their control centre so the control centre can monitor the times they are there and as a family we keep track with the cameras too. With proper records we can complain if things aren't right.

It must be hard to be a carer but there has to be some acceptance of what is appropriate in a caring environment, I work with young children and would regard it as very unprofessional to be caring for the children while smelling of smoke, I don't think this is very different.

Can I just leave you with the thought that depending on the length of your GA's calls (this applies to anyone in a similar sitch), her carers could be being paid less than two quids wages for the call- and that includes driving there and back. Less than you'd pay for a cup of coffee. Still begrudge them a fag?

"I suspect so they can finish early" just makes me want to cry. Usually morning runs start at 8, lunch runs at 11, tea runs at 4, bed runs at 7. Someone is going to have to be at the less desirable ends of those times. The agency should ensure people aren't getting a late lunch run and an early tea run for example but it does happen. However, unless you pay for exclusive carers, it's highly unlikely they'll finish early if they give your relative lunch at 11. In our place carers often wouldn't get an hour break between early shift and late shift so would work from 8am till 10pm eating snacks whilst they drove and chasing the tail of a ridiculous run plan.

I genuinely wish you could try it out. It's eye opening in many ways and I know I'll plan my old age differently than I thought previously however the biggest thing I learnt is that it doesn't matter how good the staff are, if they are run by clowns you'll never get a good service.

and yet so many others are saying the same thing.

I apologise if my subsequent posts have come over in a different tone than they are intended (one of exasperated frustration).

However, your problems are with your agency more than your carers. If you don't approach it like that nothing will change.

This a hard one. Smoke is one of the worse smells out there in my opinion (does almost make you gag) but i dont think smokers realise how bad they smell to smokers. There is nothing they can do and this smell sticks to them even hours later. You can smell a smoker full stop. However this carer is smoking in her own time... Carers are paid min wage, not paid for travelling between patients.

Saucy - regardless of wages, the minimum I would expect of someone in a 'caring' role - be it teacher/carer/nurse etc - is that they have good personal hygiene and do not smell. It's not too much to ask.

One of the teachers at my ds's school runs a dance class at the school on a Saturday morning which my dc go to. It's voluntary on his part, no pay etc. It's lovely of him to do it. But I'd still be less than impressed if he opened the door in the morning absolutely reeking of fags (or anything else). It's rude and unprofessional.