To think it's not on to smoke and then go into somebody's home?

[Hedgehogcrossing]

My great aunt for whom I am one of the next of kin has carers as she has dementia.

I have to admit I haven't generally been thrilled with the service: they never stick to the times allocated and don't seem very caring in some cases but also many of them smell very strongly of cigarette smoke - I think they must be lighting up then literally coming in. As great aunt needs personal care they are breathing it right in her face as well as preparing her food which just strikes me as horrible.

AIBU?

I don't excuse the horrendous conditions of the care workers grocklebox and would be the first to support a campaign for higher wages.

Just the same, it begs the question that if the working conditions are so poor, then why do it? If you can get the same pay in McDonald's or cleaning, why not do it? Tbh if someone has to wait for chips,who cares? If someone has to wait 2 hours for a carer and is incontinent it's obviously going to cause them to suffer. Then when carers show up stinking of smoke it makes it clear where they've been.

No it's not the care workers fault but at least they can exercise some choice in whether to be a carer or not, great aunt has no choice about being dependent on care.

YABU - only smoke or second hand smoke is dangerous. If they smell of it, it's kind of gross but they won't give her diseases or anything. It's really none of your business what they do outside your home tbh.

YABU in this specific situation. As others have said, carers are not paid for the time in between calls. It is their own off duty time- it is not part of their working day. Until they are paid for their time prior to calls it is absolutely unreasonable to expect them to behave in a "professional" manner.

Your aunt is not U not to like the smell tho.

Whilst I agree that carers are very underpaid for what is expected of them, this does not excuse a lack of consideration to their clients.

Many nurses are also overworked and underpaid, would it be acceptable for them to go out and have a quick smoke and then breathe it all over a patient on their ward 5mins later?

It isn't the same thing cold tea. Nurses are paid for breaks- they are part if their working day.

One carer chews gum constantly

Maybe they're doing that because they can't smoke.

So you want a guaranteed appointment time (which is probably no more practical than an exact time to see a GP) and you don't want people who smoke or chew gum

What next? If someone has spicy food for lunch will you say that's rude too?

yeah, those minimum wage workers, so much choice as to what jobs they take. It's like a smorgasbord out there. Do you know how many people apply for the jobs in mcdonalds when they come up? A LOT.

If the carers show up "stinking of smoke" its not because they couldn't be arsed to come quicker to the person in need of care. The timetables are set by someone else, and the travel time in between visits is unpaid. If they want to smoke on these unpaid parts that is entirely their choice. Not to mention they may well get paid for 30 mins to spend on your relative but actually spend 45 or more, unpaid for the extra, if my experience is anything to go by.

This is a low thing to complain about.

Hedgehog you are being massively disrespectful and rude.

I strongly suggest you walk a mile in those shoes before you continue your judgemental attack.

Being 2 hours late for a call is bad, take it up with the agency. Then with whoever is funding the package. I can promise you though that the carers weren't two hours late because they were smoking

If you don't want smokers then specify that, simple really.

Grocklebox I am sorry but when you are dealing with vulnerable people with dementia and people with learning disabilities and people who are severely disabled - well my sympathy isn't with "those who have no choice as to what job they have".

Guaranteed appointment time - no, BUT I do think 11 o clock for her lunch is too early and then her tea time call at 6? Leaving 5 hours between visits to toilet and a cup of tea and a snack? Then carers come at 7:30 to put her to bed! Her 'official' times are 12:15, 5 and 8, by the way! And while I understand occasionally emergencies will happen I'm talking about every day with massive variations between visits - 11 one day and 2 the next for her lunch. It's confusing for her and means she can't plan anything (well she can't plan much but that's not the point.)

Believe me I totally agree the working conditions are awful but this is NOT the fault of the vulnerable people they are working for and is not an excuse to smoke, chew gum, turn up late, cut visits short and so on.

I do not feel I have been even remotely rude, but feel free to report my disrespectful and rude posts if you like.

Btw, 1 it's less than minimum wage. 2 travel time isn't just unpaid it's unscheduled so call a at 5.00 for 15 minutes then call b at 5.15 is 5 miles away. 3 ach why bother.

YANBU OP.

Smoking smells disgusting.
The decision to smoke and working conditions of those who choose to do this admittedly hard job should have no impact on the care OPs Great Aunt receives. It isn't her fault the wages and conditions are shit so why should she have to breathe in their smoke? Whatever the pay and conditions of any job, people should be professional and that means not stinking of smoke, BO or anything else. I smoked in the past and couldn't smell how bad it was. It wasn't until I quit that I realised how bad people smell of smoke.
Aren't you supposed to breathe out carbon monoxide for a couple of hours after every cig as well?

I completely agree that is unacceptable TooMuch - but this is still not the fault of my great aunt, or others like her.

Do people really think that shoddy working conditions means that it is okay to exploit vulnerable people? I just can't agree that it is. We desperately want to avoid putting great aunt into a home, but are failing to see the alternatives if the situation continues.

Yet again, people fixate on whether smoking is legal. Why is it so difficult to accept that something may be perfectly legal but can still be inconsiderate, unethical or morally wrong?

Lmao, no I don't think I'll go running to teacher.

You need a good dose of the real world, I do feel for those carers who have to deal with you though. I'm sure they are just tripping over themselves to help. Funnily enough it is often true that the hard part of being a carer isn't the clients.

So you think people should work for the absolute minimum amount possible, with unpaid travel time, AND be completely selfless, uber-professional, and practically perfect?
Do you live in candyland?

Why don't you do it as a job then, if its so easy to do well?

Thank you sirraymond.

I am not talking about a stale whiff. I'm talking about, literally 'just-had-a-fag' smell,to the point where I can smell it after they've been in the house. It's unpleasant for GA as she is sensitive to smells and they make her nauseous, and furthermore they are preparing her food.

I'm not after 'professionalism" but a vague nod to punctuality and hygiene would be reassuring!

smoking on your own time is exploiting vulnerable people?

You're being ridiculous now.

Hedgehog, how exactly are the carers exploiting your relative?

Imo the exploration of her is by the company who take the money but fail to use it to provide adequate conditions for the staff to do their jobs. The same company that is also exploiting the staff.

It's just a smell...not a very nice one...but just a smell none the less.

Garlic
Curry
Fish
Cheese and onion crisps

None of those smell nice on the breath either, but in a free country we need to be tolerant of other people's choices.

I don't think you've been rude in this thread particularly. But I'm finding these 'person-smells-of-smoke-I-think-it's-disgusting-AIBU-to-want-to-ban-it' type of posts increasingly irritating.

You have decided you don't like the fact the carers smoke and you're looking for justification. You clearly don't like smoking and that's fine but you're being unreasonable to try and somehow gather support for insisting the carers don't smoke in their own time.

Grocklebox I have said three times now I do not condone the conditions of carers but this doesn't mean my GA should have to suffer, or do you feel elderly people should be left in wet clothing for hours at a time?

TooMuch, you have made a number of unpleasant assumptions but that's all they are - assumptions. I'm not going to apologise for being distressed on behalf of a confused and poorly old woman, who wants to live the last leg of her life at home.

Perfection - no, but compassion and consideration would be good.

GA did a LOT for brother and myself. I feel awful I can't return the favour.

And before anyone starts, I've done care work so I know how hard it can be, thanks.
Whatever the pay or conditions it was my choice to do that work and it was hard but rewarding and I was professional just the same as I was when waitressing or bar tending or running music venues.
Part of that is presentation and that includes personal hygiene and that includes not stinking of smoke.

icimoi

Some of us also happen to think it's morally wrong to expect people to behave as tho they're on duty when they're not being paid.

My mum does home care. Some days she can be out of the house for six hours, but only be paid for two and a half. The rest of the time she just has to sit in her car, in all weathers, unpaid. She doesn't smoke anyway so it isn't actually an issue for her, but if she did only a complete cunt would expect her not to. Home care workers are treated like bloody slaves as it is.