Flogging a dead horse but... internet porn in relationships

[dorasee]

So...I have a great DH.Love the guy. Like the guy. Have kids with the guy. We have a good marriage and we are solid BUT he has a 'habit' (the clue is in the title of this thread).
Whenever I 're-discover' that this habit is still alive and not going away (even though we've had the talks), I feel shit. And that's about it really. I feel shit. I know all the jargon, "It's not about you, it's about his habit" and "Guys just need an outlet. It's not big deal" and "Hey it's not like it's an actual affair" oh and let's not forget "The thing is, it's not about intimacy. It's just about getting his rocks off"... yeah so, all of that and the rest.

I still feel shit.

I don't argue with him about it anymore. I don't ask questions anymore. I don't talk about it with him. I don't treat him badly or differently. But I feel badly and yes, differently about my approach towards him on an intimate level. Life goes on. And yet, my desire to have sex with him is just decreasing with each 'surprise' walk-in. I just don't want to be close to him.

PLEASE don't offer the sage advice "Hey, why not join in? After all, if you can't beat 'em, join 'em."

I don't know what I need to hear but I wish I just didn't feel so crappy about me, about us, about this stupid, kinky elephant in the living room.

Yes they only ended up interviewing 20 men.

But they were unable to find a control group of men who hadn't watched it at all.

Other studies online suggest 70-80% of men use porn, so a significant majority.

And most men who say they don't, probably do.

Have all the happy porn apologists actually read the thread? In particular the bit where OP explains the sort of porn she's caught her husband watching. This is not ethically sourced, consensenting well paid actors enjoing a good fuck in front of the cameras because they're exhibitionists and they get as much of a thrill out of it as the viewer (or whatever story we're supposed to buy into about porn production from those who want to continue watching it). This is violent rape porn (which may involve a woman who's a consumate actor but is more likely, from what I've read of testimonies of women who've left the porn industry, to involve a woman who's been coerced).

OP, stick to your guns. You have a right to decide what's important for you and what your boundaries are. And, whether it's porn, or some other habit in life that's "pleasant" but optional, a decent partner will put their partner's feelings above their own desires for stuff that isn't actually necessary for life. (And before the apologists start screaming "controlling", I'm talking about little things like not scarfing a kitkat in front of your partner when they're on a diet, not insisting on smoking in the house when they're trying to give up, not things like going off sex for ten years and hoping the other person can cope - and note that in this instance it's the OP who's not getting a decent sex life because her husband's too busy wanking to young women getting raped on camera).

OP you absolutely nailed it when you said "stressed? Go for a run. Don't sit there watching rape porn."

OK the 'surprise' was aa word I used to sound more, I don't know, delicate. As for the number of times... several...on two hands I can count over a period of 2 years. Jeez, this makes me feel like if I am under a certain amount of walk ins, my feelings are unjustified. Is there a limit? Why do I have to qualify my hurt with figures? And for God's sake, I've got 3 kids. I don't have time to sneak in on the guy. What happens is exactly this example: I come in at 7pm after picking up 1 of my kids (pre-teen) from friend's house. I've got little ones with me. I go into our bedroom (which is where the PC is and where he works in the evenings or on occasion from home) to say 'hi back home, dinner's ready in about 30' ( this is usual. He is always on the PC working, so we are used to going up to the bedroom and seeing dad at work, chatting to him while he is on PC.) The door is wide open every time and being told each time 'I will stop. I promise', I don't expect to 'surprise' him...especially with the cleaner scrubbing the toilet a couple doors away (yes, this happened before with the door wide open just as the kids and I came in from school). We both go quiet and I walk out and get on with dinner. Later when we go to bed, I will say something like "a part of me dies when I realise you won't stop" and then we go to sleep. We don't talk about it. He just thinks my hurt will fade and everything will be ok. Sorry to sound naïve but the last thing on my mind when I come home with the kids is "Oooh let's sneak in and see if he's watching porn". You have to realise that I do love and trust my husband. I think this last time was the last straw. It felt like one time too many and too many promises broken. I have never posted about this anywhere before. I was waiting for him to change, waiting for me to be more accepting and tolerant, hoping that over time, I would truly feel that it's no big deal. This is not an isolated incident. This is a habit and it truly has taken me until now to acknowledge that I can't ignore it. I feel like shit.

I'm not a porn apologist, but can't see the point in telling OP about the evils of porn because she already knows.

The only thing that really matters, given that her DH keeps viewing it, is whether she can live with it or not.

I'm just trying to put his habit into perspective.

23teenwotsit...my last post was aimed at you. Have I justified my feelings enough? Do you actually need a number? You don't even know me but your assumptions are so off the mark, as if I'm sneaking around. I don't even check our history on the PC!!! I don't want to know really. But I do know because he's not very discreet and our sex life tells me that he can't possibly be satisfied going without for so long. Part of me has not wanted to go there. Right, I will try and refrain from showing my upset. I don't want to be seen as a mean person. I just... oh I feel so let down is all really.

OP I hadn't seen your latest message when I posted and I myself would not be able to live with that - door open, other people and the children nearby, totally unacceptable.

LurcioAgain, thank you!

23teenwotsit...my last post was aimed at you. Have I justified my feelings enough?

I posted, but it seems to have disappeared. I'm so sorry you took it like that and I apologise for insinuating you sneaked up on him. It was the quotes around "surprise" that made it hard to know exactly what you meant.

And I'm going to say that there's no way he's accidentally been caught that many times (that was what I was getting at, not that your feelings didn't count if it was only X times).

I have a very strong feeling that he likes to get caught and engineers situations where he gets caught. Getting caught, and the shock and humiliation you feel when you catch him, are part of his addiction.

I guess it depends. Me and DP watch it together, but we watch the sheesy stuff thats usually pretty romantic and stuff, "female friendly" stuff. I really couldn't care less if my DP was in his room pleasuring himself and I walked in. I'd join. I know its not the point of your post but the porn me and DP watch is soft and gentle. the hardcore stuff we don't need to watch - we do that ourselves. We really see no point in porn as we've both been watching it from around 13 for me and 12 for him. and we've never, ever come across violent porn, we don't go into those categories. I couldn't care less if DP watches it. We don't live together so I don't mind, even when we do, I wouldn't mind.
HOWEVER. Doing it in a place where you could so easily walk in as well as DC walking in at any point IS wrong.
I don't see it as cheating. He's not talking to these women, touching these women, paying for them. just like I'm not touching the women, or the men. It's touching yourself. Its a visual stimulant.
But when it becomes an addiction that takes over your life, you'd rather watch porn and masturbate than have sex, you lie about watching porn, you can't "finish" during sex because it's nothing like the "porn death grip" thats when it does become a problem.
I just think you need to sit down and have a talk with him to be fair. It might be hard but you have to do it - communication. Just try it. Its not something I would ever leave a relationship for unless I was being lied to about it because I watch porn too, but rarely, when I'm not with DP. Its when it becomes an addiction. If its getting to that point, he needs help.

Also didn't read the full thread. OP, if he's breaking pronmises to you and lying to you as I said, there comes a time and enough is enough. But if your relationship is solid I can see why you may be between a rock and a hard place. If you really love your husband and want to stay with him it will be hard, but as I said he needs help if you BOTH want this relationship to work.
Good luck to you, OP x

I'm not sure that some of the people answering on here have actually taken on board the fact that this isn't about how they feel about their partners watching porn. It is about the OP, who feels like shit about it, who doesn't have a great sex life with her partner, and who dies inside every time she finds him banging one out to violent hardcore pornography. Why is it so hard to understand the deep hurt and betrayal involved in that?

Firstly, no - personally I don't think there is any room for pornography in functioning, strong relationships. Your sexual pleasure should be reserved for each other, or for yourself when the other is not present or able to be involved. It is like cheating - it gives a part of himself that should be special for you, and makes it cheap. I hate it. It cheapens sex taking it from a loving home and making it mechanical, violent and totally disregarding of women's feelings or needs.

So OP's husband not only is rejecting her sexually, he's rejecting her feelings of hurt, and he's asserting what he sees as his rights to do whatever the hell he wants, and he is making damn sure she knows it too. Nasty, unpleasant and vile. At the most basic level, if I did something that made my partner "feel like something is dying inside", I bloody well would make sure I never, ever, ever did it again. Ever. Why? Because I care about him and his feelings, deeply, because I love him. I certainly wouldn't continue doing that thing, and making sure he knew I was doing it. That is the action of a fucked up human being.

Yes thanks espii and all.please do read my posts.

OP, please take a break from AIBU! I agree you should be able to discuss relationship topics anywhere including AIBU. But unfortunately, but perhaps not unexpectedly, this has become a pro- and anti-porn bunfight, which is only helpful up to a point ...

In the meantime you sound sad, disillusioned and angry. But only you know you, and your husband, and what is right for you. Perhaps a bit of short-term private counselling for yourself? I think sexual issues are sometimes difficult because its not something you could discuss with your mate on the bus, so I think people tend to come online to discuss.

Also, your husband says "it won't happen again" but there doesn't seem to be any further discussion, it sounds very lonely and cut-off in that respect, yet you say you have a good relationship otherwise. I think you also said it contributed majorly to the breakdown of his first marriage. So there seems to be something not right.

Personally, I think porn-use is a bit of a deal-breaker. I think all women should try and find out a man's attitude to, and use of porn, before they get seriously involved with a man. I speak from a smidgeon of bitter experience, due perhaps to my own naievity, so this is no judgment on you OP, just something I have learnt. Certain kinds of porn use do not auger well for relationships, and the attitude of the men who have them. They do not even augur well for the sex, as porn and good sex in my plentiful experience, do not go together.

Oakandash - are you being deliberately disingenuous? No one has said all porn is rape (though some undoubtedly is). The problem here is that the porn the Op's partner chooses to watch is rape porn. If real, that's beyond disgusting and if you think there is any possible justification of that then you and I inhabit such wildly different moral worlds that there's no point trying to engage with each other. If it's simulated (and I still want to know what magic crystal ball the end user possesses that enables him to tell the difference) then it's saying something very negative about his personality and attitudes towards women that he finds images of rape sexually arousing. And Op has every right to be disturbed by this.

Then there is the issue of fundamental disrespect for the op's feelings - this is a man who simply doesn't give a shit. And there's a child protection issue. He is watching it with the door open at a time when he knows the Pp is bringing the children into the house. (And if you honestly think that walking in on your parents having consensual mutually pleasurable sex on a Sunday morning is the same as walking in on your father wanking to a video of a violent gang rape - the type of porn Op has told us her husband watches - then you have big problems).

twentythree I thought that. The first thing I thought was that he wanted to get 'caught'.

Thalassa, thank you for understanding my point. I appreciate this. To those who asked, I deliberately posted in AIBU because I wanted different views. I can't thank each one of you enough, tetchy ones and all , for your words. Please know how grateful I am for all of your views, experiences, and words...ALL of you, even those posters I don't necessarily understand or agree with. Thank you. I honestly didn't bank on how much posting my personal dilemma would help. All views expressed have given me great courage and strength. I need to try and resolve where this ultimately leaves us as a family. And this will take much deliberation, time, and communication... the latter of which I fear the most because it hasn't helped thus far. I thank you all from the heart.

think what thalassa says spot on.

lots of cross-posting. but glad this is all helpful to you dorasee.

Hi OP, I feel for you on this one, my own DH is lovely but I hate that he uses porn. The same as you we have discussed over and over. It stops for a while then starts again. My self esteem is also on the floor. I don't know how long you go before deciding enough is enough though as I'm not there yet. In my experience it escalated to at least daily so obviously affects intimacy. At the moment we are ok, DH has taken to watching stuff on Netflix - foreign 'art' films etc, unsure if they are any better.