Flogging a dead horse but... internet porn in relationships

[dorasee]

So...I have a great DH.Love the guy. Like the guy. Have kids with the guy. We have a good marriage and we are solid BUT he has a 'habit' (the clue is in the title of this thread).
Whenever I 're-discover' that this habit is still alive and not going away (even though we've had the talks), I feel shit. And that's about it really. I feel shit. I know all the jargon, "It's not about you, it's about his habit" and "Guys just need an outlet. It's not big deal" and "Hey it's not like it's an actual affair" oh and let's not forget "The thing is, it's not about intimacy. It's just about getting his rocks off"... yeah so, all of that and the rest.

I still feel shit.

I don't argue with him about it anymore. I don't ask questions anymore. I don't talk about it with him. I don't treat him badly or differently. But I feel badly and yes, differently about my approach towards him on an intimate level. Life goes on. And yet, my desire to have sex with him is just decreasing with each 'surprise' walk-in. I just don't want to be close to him.

PLEASE don't offer the sage advice "Hey, why not join in? After all, if you can't beat 'em, join 'em."

I don't know what I need to hear but I wish I just didn't feel so crappy about me, about us, about this stupid, kinky elephant in the living room.

What is he actually looking at? Is it eye watering gang bangs or the equivalent of Page 3? Page 3 is still considered porn, isn't it?

Look, this really isn't about the rights and wrongs of porn per se - it's about the feelings of the OP, and whether her partner (who is meant to care about her) takes her feelings seriously or is utterly dismissive of her.

Try a totally different example. Suppose someone came on here and said "I have a real problem being around people who drink because I grew up with a parent who was an alcoholic. I can just about grit my teeth when colleagues suggest going down the pub after work, but I don't want my partner drinking in the house. He knows how I feel about it, yet I sometimes come back from work to find him having a sneaky can of Stella. I'm really upset about it." Would everyone be jumping up and down saying "well, he's not an alcoholic is he? Social drinking is part of the everyday fabric of our society? Just learn to live with it. Have you tried having a drink with him." (Now I'm sure there would be a few - some people on here have undoubtedly had a complete empathy bipass - but I would predict they'd be in the minority). Far more people I think would be saying "Why is he putting the taste of a can of stella above your feelings, knowing how strong your feelings are on this matter?"

Because porn (even if you're totally cool about it and sure you can source non-misogynistic, ethically produced porn) should be an optional extra in life, something that you should be able to do without quite easily if you know it matters to your partner.

(To push the alcohol analogy, I have a very nice male friend who used to like a glass or two of wine. He now has a Muslim partner and has stopped drinking - because she is more important to him than the taste of wine was).

Wow! I am so incredibly grateful to you all and so appreciative of everyone's insight and views, even those of you who may be on a different page than I am, I thank you all. I will reply more thoroughly in a later post (once I have a bit of kiddie-free time). In the meantime, thank you, from the heart.

Hi again, just to answer some questions, I had no clue when we met and moved in together. It just didn't come up and wasn't present (that I know of). It was an issue in his 1st marriage and I suppose it still is now in the 2nd one. It's hard-core, disturbing stuff. If the kids walked in on us that would be distressing (but that's not a big concerns. We are not doing great in that department). But if they walked in on what dad was looking at, I don't want to even think how that would affect them. Let's not go there. It bothers me that my 'live and let live' motto goes out the window on this issue. He is an individual with his own stuff that should exclusively be his. Why I can't categorise this into 'his stuff' is a question I am still trying to answer. I am not his keeper. But I am his wife. It distresses me that he looks at images of very young women, possibly/probably exploited...aggressive, humiliating images and videos, degrading. I am teaching our children that women are to be elevated, especially in a world where women are rapidly losing their place in society on a global scale. But that's not for here. I hate that he gets off on lithe, beautiful, sexy, young, nubile women. Our sex life is pants. Perhaps if this were not the case, I wouldn't feel so shite. But I do. It is what it is.

Glad it was helpful Dorasee. Its interesting to have different views, but also nice to know you are not alone

I recommend 'Pornography' by Andrea Dworkin as a critique.

But on an everyday level, I think the thing is nobody has to be "cool" about anything they are not actually "cool" about. I read that book 'Gone Girl' ages ago which has now been made into a film, a pretty average book in many ways. But there is a blistering paragraph - it burns off the page - about the female protagonist always having to be a 'cool' girl, and what an annihilation of her personality that actually is in practice.

cross-post Dorasee. sorry to hear you struggling with your feelings here. but I'm sure you'll get where you need to be on this.

x

I couldn't live with a man who used exploited young women to get his rocks off.

I wouldn't necessarily read much into the fact that it's hardcore porn he's watching. Porn habits are like that- you start off soft core then it takes harder and harder material to satisfy you. It doesn't mean much in real life. For example- lots of people like watching anal sex, but have no interest or desire to do it in real life. As long as it is all legal porn- illegal stuff is a totally different kettle of fish, obvs.
Could you not just tell him how bad the porn is making you feel and just ask him to put that effort into your sex life instead?

InSpace...you seriously think there is no issue with someone needing increasingly hardcore (and by my definition, abusive and woman-hating) porn to get the same effect ?

Gosh.

OP, you don't have to specify if you'd rather not, but I wonder if the issue is that your partner has a specific sexual fetish that he either doesn't want to act out with you, or that you have no interest in acting out. If he is into (eg) spanking and you don't want to spank him/be spanked (you have every right to refuse a sexual activity that does nothing for you, of course) then he may feel that catering to his fetish this way is the best option.

There will be the usual amount of horrified shrieking about how the dirty beast should just do without sexual pleasure, of course, but I think there is a limit to how much control one adult is entitled to have over another's recreational habits. A reasonable compromise would be that he makes sure there is no chance of you or the DC ever ever seeing any evidence of his wanking sessions - the fact that you say you keep on walking in on him is the one thing that sounds really problematic here. It's as though he either completely doesn't care, or that in some way he's trying to get a reaction from you.

dora you haven't really expanded on how often/in what context you "keep walking in on him" going about hos porn use

you have dc, yes ?

have they "walked in on him" ?

*his

Everything Sparky and HHMF said. Short term, find ways of protecting your children. Long term, I think Infinity8 is probably right. Sounds like it would be interesting to compare notes with his first wife.

He's a pervert, get rid. Problem solved. Hope your children have not already been scared by this selfish git.

Guys just need an outlet. It's not big deal

Yeah, I'm always reading that on MN

Don't worry, I only watch the nice porn

Somebody linked to this yesterday stoppornculture.org/2014/10/21/notallporn-why-the-good-parts-dont-matter/

Personally I just couldn't be with someone who liked watching that sort of porn, I'd find it deeply disturbing. I am not at all OK with porn full stop, but someone who feels the need to watch images of abuse, and who finds that sexually stimulating has something very wrong with them. I'd be very surprised if the attitude that made him think that was just fine didn't affect the rest of his life too.

OP would it help to think that in truth this is not about you, and how you feel/look etc. Your husband is probably not comparing your body to those young women and finding you wanting, he 'just' likes to imagine that he is raping young women.

To me that means he is not nor ever could be a great guy. He is I am afraid a low life, and his actions are contributing to the pain and humiliation of those he is watching. He may not see it that way, but it is still the truth. Possibly he could be weaned off it with therapy, but as with all addictions it needs the addict to feel a real need to change. As your husband has already lost at least one relationship to his habit it may sadly be unlikely that he really cares that much.

It contributed hugely to the end of my relationship. The more he watched it, the less he needed me. His attitude to me and women in general changed, almost imperceptibly at first but eventually his lack of respect during sex soon tipped over into other aspects of our relationship.

I asked him to stop watching it but he couldn't/wouldn't. It got to the point where I wasn't enough and it knocked my self esteem to the floor. He would start making crude comments watching the tv or passing girls in the street. Awful, just awful. It was just so easily accessible for him.

Great link vicacia.

I am sad that so many intelligent young women think that porn is harmless and that men will inevitably use it.

Porn is not harmless. It's not just videos of people having enjoyable sex. As the article in vicacia's link says, just look at the titles of the films ffs! It's about violence, power, control, abuse, humiliation, degradation etc

"Bitch in a box" anyone?

If porn was simply depicting enjoyable, mutually satisfying sex then maybe call someone a prude for not liking it. It doesn't show that. Men don't search for "normal, happy sex" either. The trouble is that porn depicts women as objects whose consent and enjoyment are irrelevant. Consumers of porn become influenced by these attitudes. That is what damages people and relationships. Not wanking.

Even if porn were benign, the OP doesn't like it, her DH doesn't care.

Wow! YouAreMyRain...I keep rereading what you wrote. It's so true...it's not the wanking, it really isn't. Vivacia, thank you! A brilliant link to an incredibly insightful piece! You have all taken so much time to offer insight, advice, wisdom... you have all given me so much food for thought! I am incredibly grateful, so, so thankful to each and every one of you! I am going to reread your posts and absorb your words before I post again. Vivacia, thanks again for the link.

You like porn Oak. So what.

Oakandtheash - have you read the article vicacia linked to?

Porn CAN be about mutually enjoyable sex but it isn't. The reality is very different to the possibility.