AIBU to mind what my neighbour just said to me

[lisson]

She just called it "racism" that my Y6 child will get into the better local (faith) school whereas her son won't. Her son will most likely go to the good (but not outstanding) local non-denomination comprehensive.

We are both white British (so same race afaik) but I go to a catholic church with my children sometimes and she's either CofE or nothing (I'm not sure and I don't care). The best local secondary is catholic and its heavily over subscribed.

I already knew it was a touchy subject with her (because she lectured me about it a long time ago and didn't speak to me for six months), so i always avoid talking to her about it. However, she saw me this morning and brought the subject up. Alarm bells started ringing in my head but she wouldn't let it go until she'd told me what she thought of the "racism".

I think she left quite annoyed because I pointed out that her son currently goes to a CofE primary and it gives preference in its admissions to CofE church attendees.

I get it that she'd like to send her son to the better school, but if she cares that much, then she has had several years to either convert (many do) or move somewhere that she likes the school choices better. I've certainly had to jump through hoops to get into this school, which is heavily subsidised by the diocese. I thought it best not to say that though!

Generally, she comes across as sane and well-balanced but on this subject she's very wrong to have a go at me about it.

I knew someone whose children went to a C/E state primary school and used to say they were always after money! Your neighbour should really be writing to her MP about all aspects of our three tier education system and not having a go about it to you.

Knee I do get that you are of the opinion that religion is a choice

In the context of this situation, where it is the neighbours lack of religion that causes her issue, it is a matter of choice, her choice to not be a catholic.

Our democratically elected representatives in Parliament (thankfully) disagree with you and have passed legislation that ensures that the law also disagrees with you

That applies to those who are religious and that is something I agree with, although I am not religious and don't like organised religion, I agree that people shouldn't be discriminated against because they are religious.

Really though, feel free to maintain your opinion

Thank you! I feel so much better knowing I have your approval.

My DH converted to be RC many years ago (way before we had dc). The vast majority of the people on his 18 month conversion course were converting to get their children into the Catholic school since the non-denominational one was awful. Your neighbour has had many years to do the same if she felt like it, and if she isn't keen on religion then why does she want to send her dc to a religious school? Anyway, many RC and CofE school buildings are owned by the Dioceses and I can't see the State rushing to buy them out and turn them non denominational.

I doubt it's hypocrisy that the neighbour send her child to the local CofE primary. IME most primaries are CofE (every single one around here is) and you'd have to go to extraordinary lengths not to send your child to one.

There are lots of primaries round here. The nearest is CofE but there are lots of others to choose from. I've got a feeling that she is C of E though.

She actually cited her son's primary to me as an example of inclusivity. Then I asked, if it didn't give priority to C of E churchgoers. that's when she flounced off. So, I went home and checked on the school website.. it does.

The OPs neighbour has/has the choice to be a catholic or not, she choses not to, so she can't complain about not being able to [easily] get her child a place in a catholic school.
I can't choose to be a Catholic, I can't make myself believe something I don't, and I already have my own beliefs. You might as well replace "Catholic" in the above post with something like "heterosexual".
What's wrong is that schools exist which are allowed to discriminate in terms of student (and staff) intake.

She's a bit thick then. Perhaps she could go to school with her DC?

It is generally considered wrong, however, to harangue your neighbours in the street.

Other choices:-

1. Make the best of the local school (which is actually very good)
2. See the choice coming from many years away and move home (neither of the couple have any ties in the area)
3. Do as so many others are doing and try to find something to like about catholicism so that your children go to mass and convert.
4. Complain ceaselessly to those who have some power to change the situation (i.e. not me)
5. Put up with it.

Basically, she can do as she pleases as long as she doesn't have a go at me again.

Other choices: fight discrimination together!

I can't choose to be a Catholic, I can't make myself believe something I don't, and I already have my own beliefs. You might as well replace "Catholic" in the above post with something like "heterosexual

But people do pretend to be religious to get a school place.

As this is about school places, that point is relevant.

It's certainly not something I would do, but it does happen.

It's a poor system, discriminating against children because of their parents' beliefs and method of upbringing. However, that's what the system is, it isn't your fault so she has no business moaning at you. Very very rude of her!

Sorry, to answer the question, no it's not racism, but it is discrimination on the grounds of religious belief which is equally illegal. Except in schools

This. It's absolutely staggeringly outrageous that state schools are allowed to discriminate on the basis of religion.

Those who are defending religion as a schools admission criterion:

Would you say the same if there were some NHS hospitals which only admitted Catholics? Some fire engines which would only attend fires at C of E houses? Some parking spaces only available for Jews?

Would you say "oh well everyone has the option to convert if they want those options"?

I don't think so.

Ach, ignore her. She's just lealous at your superior athletic ability

Or jealous, even

It is bloody ridiculous to still have schools, state schools, paid for out of the public purse that do not welcome a cross section of said public. Schools with anything other than a 'distance from' selection criteria (barring sen) shouldn't be paid for be the public.

Presumably your neighbour has known that the school had a certain set of admission criteria for a fair number of years. She chose not to adhere to them. Whether people believe them to be fair or not, they are what they are. Her choice, her consequences, she WBU.

She had several years to convert, after all

There used to be schools for black and white children in the US. Should we just have accepted that?

That's racism, Iggy. This is not. At worst it is religious denomination discrimination where religion is something you choose, not the colour of your skin.

I agree parents choose the religion de facto for their children, who then decide for themselves when they reach the age when they can. However, its not as if there weren't enough anti-catholic rules in Britain. Maybe there still are? Are the royal family allowed to marry catholics yet?

You're at best naive to suggest that religion is either a true 'choice' or that in some cases religion isn't linked to race (and class, but that is another story).

Religious discrimination is pretty appalling. Saying 'there were anti-Catholic rules' doesn't make it better it makes the sectarianism and discrimination worse because you are recognising that religious discrimination exists and has a detrimental effect.

I'm truly gobsmacked at some posters on this thread suggesting that it's reasonable that parents should adopt or change to a particular faith simply to get their child a state education.

Not "at worst" lisson. It IS religious discrimination, no two ways about it.

I don't agree that religion is something you choose. How do I choose to become a Catholic? I can go through the motions but I can't make myself believe. Do you think someone who doesn't believe in God but just turns up to mass is truly a Catholic? Is it fair to expect people to go through the motions when they don't actually believe?

"But I want to benefit from discrimination, wah wah wah". And, you also don't want to feel like a bad person for doing it.

I'm NOT religious. I cannot make myself believe in God any more than you could decide one day not to. Thanks goodness I live in a country with real separation of Church and State rather than still in the UK, where I have the choice of religious schools where I have to lie and cheat my way in. If my child goes to State school, she still has a daily act of worship. Fun.

C of E and RC are the same religion: Christianity. They are different denominations. Religious discrimination would be favouring Jews over Muslims.