Canada, Citizenship and The Queen, AIBU or WWYD?

[MrsTerryPratchett]

I've applied for Canadian citizenship. I'm taking my citizenship exam this week and there is a LOT of stuff in the study guide about the Queen. I'm a Republican. If I pass my exam and get to take my oath that will be,

I swear (or affirm)
That I will be faithful
And bear true allegiance
To Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth the Second
Queen of Canada
Her Heirs and Successors
And that I will faithfully observe
The laws of Canada
And fulfil my duties as a Canadian citizen.

All great except the Queen stuff (and heirs and successors). My options as far as I can see are,

a) mumble through the Queen stuff. I will be in a room with people fleeing death and torture who will be taking this oath very seriously so I don't want to do this. Also, I think it's a bit shitty. There will be a Mountie there FGS.

b) affirm properly and give up my Republican leanings. Don't really want to.

c) don't get my citizenship (not going to happen. DD and DH are Canadians, I pay taxes, contribute and will be a 'good' Canadian, I want to vote).

d) some clever thing MN will come up with that will solve this for me.

WWYD?

Good luck with the test MrsTerryPratchett! We hope to join the citizenship queue next year, although if the rules changes come through we'll have to wait an extra two years which will be very annoying as I hate not voting.

dh and I will have exactly the same issue btw.

Good luck with the test; there are some sample tests online. Here in ON they could be accessed through the public library.

DD, born in Canada; we applied for UK citizenship within her first year. Her children will not have the right to UK citizenship through her but we figured if that's what she would want at least she has the right to live and work in the UK

Think of it this way, you don't need to swear it because you believe in it. You recite the pledge out of respect for the country, the government, and honoring tradition. The only one that's going to know your words are false are you.

Just because you want to live in a country doesn't mean you have to drink the koolaid. But you do have to respect their rules, and part of Canada's rules is reciting a few words to get citizenship.

Cross your toes. I did this when dh insisted we get married in the Catholic Church since he had no church affiliation. I crossed when I promised to bring up any children Catholic. Dc got baptized and made their first communion in the RCC , but since then we've joined the Anglican Church and consider ourselves Anglican, like we should have in the first place, has we known.

Can I have your book when you're done, pretty please? We MUST apply. Otherwise I'm looking at less scholarship possibilities for current G10 dd...

Can't help with the dilemma, I'm afraid, I've sworn allegiance to Auntie Betty more times than I care to remember, so it's water off a duck's back here...

Caroldecker
The Queen didn't dissolve the Australian parliament , the Governor General did ( in her name)

RIP Gough Whitlam ( the Prime Minister he deposed) who died yesterday

By the way dh is Canadian and has a picture of the Queen hanging in his office. He is sincere, he is Very loyal to her. MIL is a staunch Canadian (huge flag waver) and has no such allegiance to the Queen, or any Royals at all (well except Princess Di which she has a suite of rooms in her house named after her!)

madwoman I'm using the audio thingy on the internets. It means I can study while I fold laundry.

nooka it has been a very long wait even without the new rules.

I didn't know DD's children won't have UK citizenship. Does that work even though both her parents are British (and also Canadian)?

Meant to say Dark that I have rellies that LOVE the Queen and I actually quite like her as a person. It's as a sovereign I have an issue.

How can you not like ?

is it really so that your canadian children can't be british? my british children have canadian citizenship through decent as i am a canadian. seems v odd that the reverse is not possible

please learn who louis riel is, the story of his leadership of the metis nation is fundamental to understanding a lot about canada. it isn't some dusty history bollocks

manitoba borders ontario on its eastern side,saskatchewan to the west.

MrsTP- are you sure your dd isn't already British through you?

If you were born in the UK, then she is British by descent and you don't need to register her. Registration as a Brit is only for children who aren't automatically British, and reading your posts, it looks to me like she probably already is.

(As Chibi says, but the other way round! Although each country has different acquisition laws, and I only know the UK ones, so it may be that Canada doesn't allow dual? So your daughter wouldn't be also British in their eyes, but would in the eyes of the UK authorities if that makes sense. Have a look at the gov website though, as it would save £££££s if she already was!)

canada allows dual. i am a dual citizen(in my case, canadian by birth) as are my children.

I imagine then that MrsTP's daughter is already British by descent and wouldn't need to be registered. Indeed, can't be registered if she already is!

I don't agree with anything more than a decorative monarchy so I'd feel unhappy about having to pledge much to them. However...if you think about what you are actually swearing to do and why, it isn't that bad. It doesn't contradict my beliefs, anyway.

'I will be faithful
And bear true allegiance
To Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth the Second
Queen of Canada
Her Heirs and Successors'

I don't see it as pledging any support for a monarchy overall. This is a historical thing from the times when monarchy was a lot more exciting - plots, coups, assassinations, treason, trying to depose one monarch and replace with another. I see these pledges as saying you won't get involved in any plot to replace this Queen with another one of your choice. Which, as you don't want any Queen, you won't be doing, so you can pledge it without feeling that you are supporting the system, or lying.

Part of the coronation oath

"Will you solemnly promise and swear to govern the Peoples of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, the Union of South Africa, Pakistan, and Ceylon, and of your Possessions and the other Territories to any of them belonging or pertaining, according to their respective laws and customs?"

So basically she has sworn to be your queen as long as your (Canadian) laws keep her as Queenie. South Africa, Pakistan and Ceylon have all sacked her, Canada might just do the same.

So I'd add a few words in my head about 'until the law changes'.

Oo, I didn't know there was an Internet thingy! I will have to look....

Internet thingy. No excuse now!

OK, I've spent the morning on my representatives and their parties. Exam is this afternoon and I got 90% on the practice test.

Wish me luck!

MtrsTerryPratchett hope you and yours are safe today.

Another one here to say that if you want to join a club you have to accept the rules. The Queen is part of the country, so you accept that or don't join.

Thanks Auntie. All the terrorism seems to be in other places in Canada for the moment. Very scary, though. I think in Canada we get very used to being 'safe' pretty much all the time. A timely reminder for me of what it means to be part of this country. I feel for the Police Officers and Armed Forces right now.

Liara - how come you only had to sign a piece of paper and not say an oath or affirmation? I thought that's compulsory. They let you bring your own holy book (upon receiving the invitation with this info my husband only sternly said "You will not wear a colander on your head", the spoilsport.

Dunno - I was just told to wander over to x solicitors on y date to do the oath thing (my sol's words) and I went and they gave me a piece of paper to sign. So I signed it.

This was a while ago, maybe it's changed? I also didn't have to take any exams or anything like that.

i became a citizen in 2009 and there were explicit changes to mak the whole process more citizenier for lack of a better term- the life in the uk test was part of that. i think they had envisioned a sort of American style ceremony with grateful emotionally overcome immigrants.

fwiw my oath was sworn before a larger than life photo of the queen, and i got a crystal paperweight as a souvenir!

having lived here since 2001, when things were different, i can well believe citizenship ceremonies involved wandering over and signing a paper :)

It was cancelled in the end because of the horrible events in Ottawa. Months until I can take the exam again. bloody karma

Just realised how horrible that sounds. I didn't mean karma for the poor officers and soldiers involved. I know a Mountie in Ottawa and am very worried and sad for everyone involved.

I meant me having doubts and the exam being cancelled was karma for me.

As I cba to google/wiki...are Canadians still subjects of The Queen or just Citizens?